I found rot on both a post and beam that support my porch overhang/roof. The post is a 4"x6"xWhatever, the beam is a 4"x10"xWhatever.
The portion of the beam touching the post is rotten but right above that it is not. In the link to the photo below you will see that I marked two parts. The red part is the rotted wood and the blue part is still good. So, I think that about 1/2 of the width of the wood can be saved (i.e. I just need to cut out a portion that is 4"x"5x6" off). So my question really is what is the best/recommended way to mate the fix. Do I try to save the portion of the beam that is not rotted (keep the blue part in the photo), or do I simply remove the old six inches of length in the beam that was touching the post and simply get a post long enough to replace that portion?
Of course however I decide to mate the connection I would get a heavy duty L bracket and perhaps some sort of simpson tie for more support.
Thank you very much for the reply and suggestions. Interestingly, I saw that same Tom Silva's video two days ago. Agreed that the diagonal would do a great job structurally though it would not look the same/or good with the remainder of the posts (none of them have diagonals).
From the images that you shared, it appears that you would try to save as much of the beam as possible and simply get a new longer post to fit in the "carved out" beam. Would you go for a heavy L bracket in addition to a steel plate? And, if I go for a steel plate, would you only need one or would you put one on either side (two total) and, furthermore, would you try to put bolts through both of them? If go for one steel plate, would you say that 2" or 3" screws (thick of course) would be strong enough?
This is exactly the sort of post (not wooden post, usenet post) that ahr might be very good at. Unfortunately I don't know what you shoudl do. Is the brown post to the left, with the metal part, a new addition to hold up whateveer the damaged post is holding up. That seems like a very good idea. In fact maybe it's sufficient.
If not, you can rent 8' jack stands to hold things up while you work on it.
If so, and if that means the brown post can hold up everything while the problem post is out, Maybe you can cut out the red and blue parts, plus any damaged part below the red (If you don't cut out enough, you can cut out more) , and force a piece of 4x4 exactly the same length as what you take out, into the space. Round the leading edge with a sander or angle grinder, grease the leading edge and faces, and use a sledge to force it in all the way. FTR I've never done anything like this.
Or replace the whole 4x4, but that doesn't seem much better to me, or any easier to do. You still have to round the leading edge, at the top or bottom.
Possibly you can stop things from gettting worse if you find out who is painting your post red and blue and get him to stop.
I addressed that issue when I said: "You could replicate the support elsewhere to balance the visual."
In other words, a faux support on the other posts. Diagonals that are purely decorative.
No, I never said to use a longer post. None of the images I posted show a longer post. I guess I should have labeled the orange piece as a patch.
Keep in mind that you have told us that the top section of the beam is still good. I'm taking your word for it. That said, I would not rely on half the beam to support whatever it is that the 10" beam is supporting unless I knew that the 10" beam was extreme overkill or perhaps a design feature.
You say that the beam is a 4 x 10. I am assuming that it's 10" because of what it needs support. If you simply cut out the lower portion and use a longer post, you will have reduced the beam to a 4 x 5, which may not be enough. Only you (or maybe a structural engineer) knows how big that beam has to be.
In addition, I believe that I see checking in the beam right above the temporary post you have in place. It could be just peeling paint, but if it is checking/cracking and you put a post up to that point, or just add a patch and set it on the post, that checking will probably become a full blown crack. You don't want this:
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There are lots of ways to marry the patch to the existing beam so that weight transfer occurs. The most important thing to keep in mind is that you have find a way to transfer the downward forces on the corner where the patch meets the existing beam so that it acts as if it's at least a 10" beam.
The plate (or plates), angle iron, a properly secured diagonal (that actually adds support) etc. are all options. I don't know how much weight that beam supports, so I'm not going to size anything for you. There are lots of other options of marrying the patch to the existing beam so that weight transfers occurs. Some are shown here. (ignore the brick)
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Any of those could be let into the wood and painted over for a better visual. You were concerned about not having diagonals on the other posts. You probably don't have plates or angle iron either. ;-) You duplicate the look at the other end if you really wanted to. Even make a wooden plate or wooden "angle iron" so once it was all painted, if would match.
And oh...you need to find out why that junction is rotted. It's interesting that only connection point is rotted and not the entire end of the beam. Are you sure that the top part of the beam is ok? A long drill bit could help you find internal rot. You want to feel consistent resistance all the way through.
One thing I forgot to mention. I am assuming that the rot goes into the beam beyond the left hand side of the post.
*If* the bottom of the beam is solid right up to the original post and solid at the top of the beam, then you might be able use a piece of angle iron under the beam on the left side of the post. The top of the beam would sit on a taller post and the bottom of the beam would rest on the "shelf".
The shelf would reduce the forces at the corner of the beam where the rot was cut out and transfer some weight down into the post.
Without knowing how far the rot goes into the beam and without knowing how much weight that huge beam supports, I don't know if that is a viable (and pretty easy) fix.
That might even work for a slightly longer, properly attached patch.
Thank you all for all of the useful information. I've also updated the original image (see below) to improve the discussion:
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The brown post is there temporarily to provide support while I properly correct this issue
the red circle highlights the 45 degree metal downspout that was not welded. Right below the 45 degree elbow there was a strap nailed into the beam (about 2" from the bottom of the beam). When it rained, water would come out of the side of the downspout elbow, down into the strap, over the nail and over time into the beam
I placed a dark arrow on the part of the beam where the checking may be taking place. Will definitely keep an eye on that to determine if it is surface cracking or a crack that goes through the entire beam
completely understood about sizing of the beam. The house is a single storey house with a low sloping roof, approx 13 degrees. Although this rafter appears to be supporting very little, just the roof, no rooms above, I hear you about the fact that the down sloping beams could be transferring quite a lot of weight to this post....
What I plan to do:
I plan on getting a bottle jack and ,using a metal plate on top of the jack, placing a 4x4 or 4x6 post to the left of the brown post to provide even more support.
with the above in place, I plan on removing the entire grey post since I don't know how much water damage it has. I do see that I could cut out just the rotted part and replace just that. Anyway, if I remove the entire grey post I have to be very careful with the bottom part since a metal bracket is embedded in the cement. Ideally I can reuse the metal bracket if I am careful with the removal and, of course, if the bracket looks to be in good shape.
going to cut out the red part of the beam and very carefully check for more rot. If there is more then back to the drawing board. Though I am pretty sure that only the portion in red is rotted, the remaining portion is nice and solid.
place a bran new 4x6 post and support it with a heavy duty L bracket (seen in the green highlight) and put a metal bracket vertically in the blue highlight going down to the post
fix the downspout by making sure it is properly sealed and separating it away from the post enough so that if water leaks it will not touch the beam
I forgot to ask one more thing. For replacing either a portion or the entire post I'm seeing:
pressure treated timber
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doug fir:
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I realize that the pressure treated timber will handle the elements better than the doug fir though I can add hardener to the fir, make sure to paint it and otherwise make sure to account for the elements as much as possible. The wood would be subject to full sun all the time and not much in terms of rain. Anyway, I don't know what type of wood is being used for the pressure treated timber. Are there any kinds of wood that you would recommend between the two or perhaps another type of wood? I imagine some are stronger than others and I want this fix to last. Any suggestions in terms of wood and wood treatment would be appreciated. Ty!
Sorry all. What I meant to say is that the page says that doug fir vs red wood vs PT wood have similar strength characteristics. In my case, since I will be painting the post, paying a premium for red wood doesn't make sense. Buying PT would make sense if I did not care about the staple marks. I will add wood hardener (especially to the bottom) and prime/paint this post multiple times to keep the elements out.
Anyway, I was able to fix the post and I put a nice thick L bracket where the post meets the beam (used 3" long galvanized screws). I was thinking of adding a strap as well. Below I have links to two photos. One shows the strap horizontally and the other, vertically.
would adding a strap be overkill?
would you recommend installing the strap horizontally or vertically? In either case, you get a relatively small amount of connection with one part while a greater amount of connection with the other.
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p.s. Here is a link to the original photo that I shared in case that it helps. The posts are about 7.5' tall (they are 4x6s) and the beams are less than 11' long (they are 4x10s) resting on the posts which are about 11' apart .
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