Extending Circuits

[dpb]

Redoing entryway to old house...the new wiring will be just all the previous electrical circuits only we've widened the entry by a couple feet so will be short just a little.

It would be a very big deal to have to try to re-pull all the way from the panel so my idea is to put a box in the closet for the splices.

Question is, is there a box w/ just landing terminals for the purpose rather than just a bunch of loose connections? My quick search didn't really find what I was thinking of. Could always mount a couple of bars in a box to make one...

For thinking about, the end result is:

A) one ganged set of four switches by the entry door -- one 4-way for yard light, one for porch light, one for the entry (hoping can figure out way to turn this into 3-way w/o needing another run from main--if not it'll just stay as is) and one 4-way for dining room.

B) light switch to closet

C) power feeds to A) and B)

Can run all new runs from those new switches to fixtures, of course, it's only the extensions to them that needs connection to the feeds...

For construction, pulled everything out of boxes leaving hooked up so and just wrapped up well and hid in the wall cavity of main structure until get new construction under roof and can open up to the main house again...that could be as early as late next week if weather cooperates.

--

[trader_4]

Typically you just add on to the existing circuit by joining the wires in typical receptacle or switch boxes. Or you can just add a new box for a splice, use wire nuts, as long as it's accessible.

[Clare Snyder]

What do you expect with "butt connectors"?

[dpb]

As noted, the new box will be in the closet wall (not covered up, no); and yes, from outside it all looks the same...just that a mess of wire-nut connections inside the box is, well, still a mess... :)

But, expedient and typical, granted...just thinking of something slightly "more neater" would be nice and be able to label circuits for future reference simply as well.

Can be done routinely as you describe of course and is in compliance by Code granted...

[Clare Snyder]

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 14:31:12 -0400, [e-mail] wrote: SNIPP

BUTT - can I use them with Aluminum wire?

Molex has ones listed for both copper and aluminum at:

May have to get a few of those stripos to extend the neutrals fo install arcfault breakers - - -

[dpb]

Yeah, that's the sort of thing...thought perhaps some who had done more recent work of the sort than I have might have seen or know of a "for purpose" panel.

I'll see what I can find at the local distributor's Monday...I thought I still had enough of the cabinet terminations used at the power plants but that stash seems to have been with the box of stuff that "disappeared" while I wasn't in the office one spell while in the moving process -- it included most of my small toolkit for setup of data acq systems including a good Fluke meter. :(

--

[gfretwell]

You have to separate neutrals anyway down stream of the bus bar in the panel. You are not allowed to bundle neutrals from different circuits although I have seen it done. It does get a tag from me. Those big kludge ceiling boxes are the worst offenders. That is also where most AFCI problems occur.

[dpb]

Those do have to have rail mounting system which is neat but overkill for this even by my standards... :)

I'd pair each cable 2/3 wire and use common ground bus as gfretwell noted.

Breakers are in main panel and aren't changing -- have enough circuits and it's old work retrofit so I'm not going to change anything but make the wires longer to reach their new homes...

[dpb]

Much. Used mostly Weidmuller for cabinets although some Phoenix...they're way too pricey for ordinary house wiring work but I thought I had a stash until I went to look...there was probably >$1K of materials in 1999 $$ in the box that went walkabout not counting the tools... :(

[micky]

Not afaik. Just remember when you go to the new house of your richest neighbor: He has lot s of wires connected with wirenuts in his junction boxes too. You just don't see them, and you and he won't see yours either.

You're saying you have 3 places you can turn the entry light on or off, and you want to reduce that to 2 places. How about just don't use the third place. Maybe some day you'll change your mind or the next owner will want to use it and be glad it's there.

You want 3 places to turn the dining room lights on and off. Do you have 3 entrances to the dining room? Oh, you want one by the entry door, so you can turn many lights on from one location. That's fine, but makes it even stranger to me that you want to get rid of one location for the dining room lights.

[Clare Snyder]

Situations like that are what low voltage control systems were made for - Remote control.

[dpb]

...

Not so much in 1914... :)

[gfretwell]

Those gray Carlon boxes are good for this. They can be 6x6 or 8x8 if you really need some room. You do have to drill your own holes but a hole saw works fine. It really depends on how many circuits we are talking about.

[Clare Snyder]

There were actually remote actuated switches back then too - and they were "wireless" - but not "cordless" - a series of strings and pullies with a "rocker" that actuated the push-buttons.

[gfretwell]

There are also relay based low voltage systems that have been around for well over a half a century.

IBM used these RR7 system relays when they built the Gaithersburg complex in the early 60s. The relay sticks in a 1/2" KO with the switch part in the box and the low voltage coil outside. They are latching relays so one wire turns it on and one turns it off with no limit to the number of low voltage switching locations.

[dpb]

On 6/15/2019 11:19 PM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

Yeah, many alternatives are _possible_; just getting the existing to its new home will be good enough altho that one additional switching location would potentially be useful. I might see if there's another route to get that functionality as well altho actually on reflection there isn't really a great location to mount the other side switch--as actually the way I described to Micky of being four entrances with only one not switched is really not quite true -- two aren't switched because the wide opening into the entry area doesn't have any switches on its wall because there is essentially no wall--they opened up that wall almost entirely so the switches at the exterior wall serve the purpose. We're making that distance longer by expanding the entry way, albeit not but by another couple feet.

I guess I could cut in a box on the N wall at the east end...have to think about that if can get in there to pull a feed w/o more demolition than think its worth in the end...

--

[gfretwell]

As long as you understand 3 way and 4 way switching, adding new switch locations is not that hard if you have a way to add the wire in the wall. I am looking at one of those myself but the trick will be getting 4 more wires down the wall.

[Rod Speed]

Or you could use the Philips Hue system there. The switches arent wired and they don’t have any batterys either, they work by kinetic energy.

Not cheap but can be cheaper than rewiring.

[dpb]

Not seen that before..._WAY_ over the top to save a couple of steps once in a while!! :)

Can't imagine living in such a way one would have to have a router to turn the lights on/off or an app to set things up. Ain't agonna' happen...

[Rod Speed]

Save a lot more than that, any switching at all in fact.

Has happened for me. I don’t fart around with switches at all anymore, everything is done with movement sensors, completely automatic.