Electric vs propane

[DerbyDad03]

Yeah, not snipping is almost as annoying as people who change the subject line and break up threads.

[Stormin Mormon]

What's worse is people who write under header of "electric versus propane" and go off on drift.

[DerbyDad03]

Hey...look what I found under the header of "electric vs. pr> >>

[Bubba]

As others have stated, I'd choose propane over electric. Electric has become too unreliable to trust for heating a house.

[Stormin Mormon]

There are some people in the world who try to make it a better place. They are kind and offer good information mixed in with occasional comic quip.

And there is Derby Dad who is argumentive, and busy making the world a worse place. Is that your function in life, to cause trouble?

[DerbyDad03]

It's not my goal to cause trouble, but it is my goal to point out hypocrisy when I see it.

It's OK for you to tell people they are "full quoters" and "thread drifters" but when you do similar things and it's pointed out, you call us "troublemakers".

You say that we should be polite, yet you continually make offensive comments about large groups of people.

Goose meet Gander.

[Stormin Mormon]

What is the typical reaction to your efforts? Are you making the world a nicer place, or do you just incite resentment?

[HerHusband]

I am fortunate to live in the Pacific Northwest where electric rates are cheap. We use electric for heating, cooking, hot water, etc. Our electric is also quite reliable, with less than one short outage per year (usually only during wind or ice storms).

I personally prefer electric, even if it cost a little more.

Electricity can be generated in multiple ways. Hydropower, wind power, solar, nuclear, natural gas generators, coal fired generators, etc. If the grid went down for some reason I could always get a generator and make my own electricity. I like that flexibility.

Switching between other fuel sources (propane, natural gas, coal, oil, etc.) isn't quite so easy. It usually involves an expensive replacement of the heating equipment and connections to ductwork.

Electricity is also relatively safe. I don't have to worry about gas leaks, explosions, or carbon monoxide poisoning. As long as the wiring is installed correctly and I keep butter knives out of the light sockets, I don't have much to worry about.

That said, I also believe in redundancy. In our last home our furnace went out in the middle of a very cold winter. We had no heat for two weeks while we waited for a part to be delivered. I learned not to rely on a single heating source.

When we built our new house, we used individual room heaters. Even if two or three heaters were to fail, we still have heat in the other rooms. It's also more efficient being able to provide only the heat that's needed in the individual room (we tend to keep the bedrooms cooler for sleeping).

We also have a woodstove. We use it mostly for ambiance and a little extra heat on cold evenings, but it's nice to have yet another backup heat source when the power goes out.

It would be nice to generate at least part of our own electricity. But, living in the forest we don't get enough wind or sunlight, and don't have a creek available for micro-hydro. So, I buy the electric and keep our trees.

If new cars didn't cost more than my first home, I would love to have an electric car. But at those prices I'll make do with the $800 car I've driven the last 25+ years. :)

Anthony Watson

[DerbyDad03]

If you choose to resent my efforts to make you a better person by pointing out the error of your ways, then that's on you. It doesn't impact me at all. All I can do is be patient, continue my efforts and hope that you eventually drop the resentment, admit (to yourself) that you are being hypocritical and change your ways.

People spent years complaining about your top posting. Eventually you changed your ways, either because it wasn't worth the fight or you changed your opinion on the practice. Either way, you made a.h.r a better place and we thank you for that. Perhaps, over time, you'll change some of your other habits and a.h.r will be better still.

In the meantime, please don't let the resentment eat away at you. It's not healthy.

[Stormin Mormon]

Glad that works for you. I think that a lot of our day to day decisions are greatly influenced by Our Nation's Leaders, and their policies. Prices of various fuels are highly dependant on permits to drill, transport, refine, etc.

[Jacque Dubois]

Our electric service was excellent until deregulation. Now it's all cheapest bidder mentality. Sure, deregulation shaved a few pennies a year off my bill but I also had to spend $5500 on a whole house genset.

I'd rather have the regulated electric company back along with their formerly excellent service.

[trader4]

If the grid went down, you could generate heat with a generator to run a few electric heaters without regard to whether you were using oil, nat gas, propane or anything else as a regula source for heat. But if you had one of those other fuels, you could rely on the generator just to run the blower or water pump and heat the whole house normally using just a few hundred watts. A generator is a poor way of generating resistance electric heat and you're only going to get 5Kw of electric heat out of a 5kw generator. It would be like running 4 hair dryers.

You can't switch between hydro, nuclear, coal, nat gas etc either. Only your electric company can do that.

Plenty of houses have burned down from fires caused by electricity.

[Stormin Mormon]

If you had some way to duct the exhaust outdoors, the heat from the generator engine would probably help a lot. Noisy, but a source of heat.

During my most recent power cut, the NG was still on, so I wired my generator into the furnace. That provided the most comfortable heat.

I ran some numbers from generator catalogs, think I remember that a gal of gas makes about 4,000 watts for an hour. If memory serves, that is. Those four hair dryers going to use a lot of gasoline.

[DerbyDad03]

:-)

[HerHusband]

As I said, I have a redundant heat source. If the electric grid went down, I still have a wood stove for heating.

My point was electric offers flexibility. If you have oil or propane heat and run out of fuel, then what? If natural gas prices soar in coming years, what options do you have? You can generate electricity with other fuels. You can't generate other fuels from anything else.

I don't have to make any changes as supplies become scarce or technology improves. My power company can obtain electricity from any of those sources to keep rates lowest.

True. I just feel more comfortable with electricity. Personal preference.

Anthony Watson

[trader4]

If the power lines go down in a storm with electric, then what? And in my experience, that's a lot more likely than to have NG interrupted. We went through a week of no electricity here in NJ during Sandy, but I had NG the whole time.

If natural gas prices soar in coming years,

If electric prices soar in coming years, which isn't unlikely if the cap and trade folks prevail, then what options do you have? You can make that argument with regard to any fuel source.

You can generate electricity with other fuels.

You're completely ignoring the huge inefficiency in generating electricity, not to mention that you'd have to have eqpt capable of using any fuel. If you have a gallon of fuel oil, you could put it into a diesel generator that drives an electric heater or you could put it into an oil furnace. You'd probably get 2X the heat out of the furnace. And with an oil furnace or boiler, I can heat the whole house easily. If you take that gallon of fuel oil and put in in a diesel generator, then use it to power resistance heat, it's hugely inefficient. As I pointed out, with a 5KW generator, you'd power 4 hair dryers.

Really? Keep rates lowest? In most of the USA, electric resistance heat is by far the most expensive way of heating and that is with todays prices as well as the price history of the past many decades. If electric heat is so peachy keen, why don't we see it being used, except in special cases?

[Stormin Mormon]

SM: My last power cut, I did just that. Use the generator to run the blower.

SM: For oil you sub diesel fuel or kerosene. For propane, you have a couple gas grill tanks on site.

SM: And that's your choice. Me, I'd prefer to have some fuel onsite. (Which you do, with wood.)

[Stormin Mormon]

Sm: Good to know, the gas was still on. I enjoy having a rather old gas cook top, with pilot lights.

SM: So, so true.

SM: With a diesel generator, don't most of those dump the heat outdoors with radiator and fins?

And with an oil furnace or boiler, I can

SM: So, so true. Four hair dryers doesn't do much.

SM: Account of cost, as you observed.

[JAS]

What did you use to power your furnace or heater fans?

[Stormin Mormon]

A couple folks have given us sitreps from Sandy, but I'd be curious to hear it again.