Clearly, you wouldn't, but then again you seem to think outlets on ranges are pretty standard, and the better models have two outlets. I on the other hand, haven't seen outlets on ranges in quite a long time. I'm sure you can still find a few, but by and large, I think they are a thing of the past, in fact I was just at Home Depot this afternoon and took a look at their free standing ranges. They had 17 models on display, none of which had outlets on them.
I can think of a couple of reasons why:
A - An outlet on a range sounds like a safety issue. The cord could very easily come in contact with the heating element/burner melting the insulation.
B - With the exception of using perhaps an immersion blender, what would you want to plug in and use at the range anyway?
Hey, the efficient woman could blow dry her hair while frying eggs and bacon. I think those were from a time when there weren't modern counter top outlet requirements. I would be surprised if their disappearance wasn't a matter of safety/liability as well.
The debate does have me curious though. Next time I'm in a store that sells appliances I'm going to take a look.
You missed the main reason. They can save a dollar or two by not putting one on the stove.
Yes, they can save $2 by not having to install a convenience outlet or another fuse holder.
But, they can sell more stoves if their stoves have a convenience outlets. And, my guess is that it's NOT a wash. Stove manufacturers make a lot more than $2 profit on each stove they sell, and so the more stoves they sell, even ones equipped with convenience outlets, the more profit they make.
In my mother's case, she has her microwave oven plugged into one of her stove's convenience outlets and a toaster plugged into the other.
New homes have more electrical outlets in the kitchens, AND they're rated at 20 amps each. But, look at the huge number of older homes built in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's that will typically only have one electrical outlet in the kitchen rated at 15 amps. That's cuz back in the 50's and 60's, microwave ovens (aka: "radar ranges") were the size of a small fridge and cost $1500. Nowadays, they're small enough to fit on any counter top, cost $49 at Walmart, and everyone has one. People with those homes WANT additional electrical outlets in their kitchens for the convenience of being able to use more than one small appliance at the same time, and a convenience outlet on their stove is an important feature in their eyes.
This thread is stupid. If convenience outlets on stoves were a desireable feature in the past, why wouldn't they be a desireable feature now? What could get into an appliance manufacturer's head to make him decide people don't need or want them any more? If a house has 6 duplex receptacles over it's kitchen counter top, sure, another one on the stove isn't needed. But, what about all the houses out there with only one duplex receptacle over the kitchen counter top and another one behind the fridge? For the $2 each they cost to provide, why NOT provide them on a stove for those that want them? The stove is gonna sell for $600 to $1600, so it's not like it's going to affect the profitability of making and selling stoves.
I once went into a hardware store wanting to buy a 7/16ths inch drill bit. They didn't have one. The guy working there told me "There's no demand for them any more. Nowadays, everyone drills 3/8 or 1/2 inch holes. No one drills 7/16ths inch holes anymore." I didn't argue with the guy. How can you lock horns with insanity and remain sane yourself.
I agree that I don't think cost savings is the main reason. That hardly seems the reason to not have one on a $1000 or $2000 range full of all kinds of optional stuff. If anything, the only place one seems to have been found in this thread is on a lower end GE stove.
I hope it's rated for all that.
They sure weren't building houses here in the USA with only one outlet in a kitchen in the 70s and 80s. Even in the houses I grew up in that were built in the early 50s, there were a couple of outlets over the countertops. There would be a counter to the left of the sink, one to the right and one outlet on each of those sections. One house also had a small island that divided the kitchen from an eat in kitchen. There was an outlet on the wall over the island. That's where we kept the toaster.
They may still be desirable for some people. I just think how much they matter has diminished because as RBM pointed out, there are a lot more outlets in a typical kitchen today. Even houses from the 50s and 60s, a hell of a lot of them have been renovated and made more modern. And as I previously pointed out, I think an outlet on the back control panel of a stove is a bad idea from a safety standpoint. It's also puts one more hard to clean thing in a spot where it's going to get stuff on it.
>What could get into anSee the safety issue. Also, I would expect they do focus groups and such to get feedback as to what features people want. They see what sells, what doesn't sell. It could also be that people want sleek looking ranges and an outlet makes it look like a throwback to the 60s and perhaps less desirable than one without it?
Personally, I've never seen that in the USA.
Well, I guess that money does add up at some point. If the cost is $2, then that's maybe $7 at retail. For cheap stoves, that could be a factor. And for a $1500 stove, maybe adding an outlet makes it look like a throwback to the 60s and consumers less likely to buy it? Who knows.
That sounds like the village idiots that work in the local ACE Hardware here. Soon as you walk in the door, they descend on you. And instead of being helpful, they just waste your time with stupid questions. My all time favorite was the time I went looking for water pressure gauge. The guy didn't have one, but gave me a lesson on how home water system pressure is about 2 PSI......
A couple of weekends ago we had overnight guests. On Saturday morning SWMBO was using most of the main counter making batter for pancakes and waffles. A stand mixer, a hand mixer, bowls, ingredients, etc.
I pulled out the waffle iron and stood there looking for a place to set it up and start cooking. Ah, look there next to the range. Look at the empty counter space. Too bad the only outlet on that wall is the one behind the refrigerator. It sure would have been convenient to have a convenience outlet on the range so I didn't annoy the missus by crowding into her prep space.
That same next-to-the-range counter space would be a convenient place to put the bread maker and my cooks-to-slow slow cooker during the occasional times that I pull them out of storage.
As I said earlier in this thread, the duct work for the second floor runs up the wall behind the range, specifically where the open counter space is between the range and the fridge. I'd love to add an outlet, but it would have to be a surface mount and I find them extremely unattractive.
If my range had a convenience outlet, it would certainly see its share of use.
I just got back from my local Home Depot not more than 15 minutes ago.
I did check out their stoves, and MOST of them had one convenience outlet. However, all the stoves with convenience outlets had them located on the TOP of the console, either on the left side or the right side; not at the front on the panel between the console and the cooktop where they were most commonly found years ago.
There were lots of stoves that didn't have any convenience outlets, but most had one. I didn't see any that had two.
But, when I asked the salesman at Home Depot "Do you have any electric ranges WITHOUT a c> in fact I was just at Home Depot this afternoon
Could you pease give us the phone number of that Home Depot store? I have a long distance calling card that allows me to phone anywhere in Canada or the USA for 4.3 cents per minute, and it's worth 4.3 cents to me to confirm that what you're saying is true.
The Home Depot store here in Winnipeg is the one near Polo Park shopping center and their phone number is (204) 779-0703.
Most electrical and building codes call for GFI outlets in a kitchen, especially near a sink. My stove is quite near our sink and if it was an old electric stove with 120 volt convenience outlets there would be no protection from electric shocks. I suppose the new electric stove manufacturers no longer include convenience outlets because they have no control over how their stoves are installed and even if GFI outlets were part of the stove, there is no guarantee that their stoves would always be properly grounded. The corporate risk lawyers may have more to do with the decision to leave off the convenience outlets than the corporate bean counters. o_O
TDD
Yeah, but it would be even more convenient if you had the currently required counter outlets. My guess is that most people today have adequate counter outlets to the degree that the range manufacturers don't find the desire to have them anymore.
I kind of wonder about the GFCI aspect of this as well. For one thing, you wouldn't be able to have a gf outlet on a range fed from a 3 wire feeder
Maybe this is a Canadian thing. Now I'm even more curious for others in the U.S. to look. I looked at 17 free standing ranges in the Southeast, NY Home depot, and not one had a receptacle.
That's exactly what I thought. The legal system would probably nail the stove manufacturer even though their installation instructions called for a four wire feed. I posted in the "locked meter" thread about idiots making illegal electrical hookups and the danger involved because there will always be someone, sometime, somewhere doing something extremely stupid involving electrical power. It's called "The Dumassification Of America". Something that has caused more mayhem and death that any other tragedy that has befallen our country. o_O
TDD
Through the upgrades that I've done to the main counter area, I believe that I have all of the required counter outlets in that area.
On the wall where the range and fridge are, there was no counter top when I moved in, just empty space between the two appliances where the former owners kept their garbage can. I built an 18" base cabinet to hold the garbage can and to provide a little counter space next to the range. The range that was there at the time had a convenience outlet, so I didn't need to add an outlet above the counter. My new range doesn't have one, so now I'm without power for that counter. If you add a 18" base cabinet as I did, are you required to add an outlet above it?
Why the former owners chose to live for 30 years without counter space next to their range is beyond me. I built the cabinet within weeks of moving in. Of course, that same family chose to look down over the backyard from 2 side by side double hung windows, requiring them to walk to front of the house and then around the back to access the yard. The first summer I was in the house I replaced the windows with a sliding glass door, built a deck and stairs down to the yard. 30 years later, I still thank myself for building the deck.
In my opinion, you do what you need, it's your house. The Nec however requires an outlet at any kitchen counter space 12" or larger, and no point along a counter space can you be more than 24" from an outlet.
Are you sure ? It may not protect exectally correctly, but you should be able to wire it up.
The neutral and ground on a gfci have to be separated. With both connected to the frame of the range I think you'd have issues
If he doesn't believe it, all he has to do is go to a GFCI outlet and take a paperclip or piece of wire then short the neutral to ground. If the GFCI outlet is working, it will trip when the wide slot is shorted to the ground. ^_^
TDD
True that, but the receptacle slots are on the load side of the device. This ground/neutral connection would be made on the line side. I'm sure a GFCI tester would read "miswire", but I'm not sure that it wouldn't still function. Next time I install a GFCI receptacle I'll connect the neutral to the ground and neutral and see what happens.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.