Electric Range/Oven wiring questions

Thanks RBM and everyone else. Mission accomplished. I did the hookup with a new 50-amp circuit, used #6/3 NM wire with ground, used a new 4 wire cord set, and did the jumper removal when converting from the original 3-wire cord to the new 4-wire cord. And, it all worked!

Reply to
TomR
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Is there a convenience outlet on this range?

Reply to
RBM

What does "at counter space mean"? If a standard height outlet (~12" to center) behind the fridge is less than 24? from the counter top does that meet code or does the outlet need to be above the counter and/or accessible from the counter?

I'm guessing it has to be above the counter.

BTW...Mine isn't within 24?...I'm just curious.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

It means above the counter top, but no more than 20" above it. It has to be accessible so one behind the refrigerator doesn't count. Even if you have one of these enclosures built on the counter top for something like a toaster, which has an outlet inside it,they call them garage doors, they too don't meet the requirement. If you have a piece of unbroken counter space 4' 1", you would need two receptacles

Reply to
RBM

There is an exception for people with disabilities that allows the outlets to be installed in the face of the base cabinets

Reply to
RBM

No, there is not. I've been following the convenience outlet topic here and remembered to specifically look today. I don't recall seeing any either on any range/ovens in recent years -- and I have bought maybe 4 or 5 in recent years for various properties. Other than the electric range/oven that I installed today, all of the ones I bought were natural gas. They all needed an outlet to plug into because they all have electronic pilot/ignition and a few have clocks. None have their own convenience outlet and I don't recall seeing any knockouts on any of them where one (or two) could be installed -- but I wasn't looking specifically to see if there are any knockouts in any of the range/oven cabinets.

To be honest, I was wondering what's up with this topic and why the responses here seem to vary so much. But then I noticed that Nestork posted something about being in Canada, and I think it may turn out to be a "Canada thing" as you suggested, and not something that is normally found in the U.S.

I'm definitely going to be looking in all of the Home Depots and Lowes etc. that I go to in the next few days or week or so. I really am curious what the story is on them, meaning, "is they is or is they ain't" -- I just don't know.

Reply to
TomR

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The neutral and the ground have to be separated on the DOWNSIDE of the GFCI, ie on anything plugged into it or anything wired to it that it protects downstream. In the case of a GFCI in a stove on the 120V outlet, it should work. The GFCI is looking for the current in the hot of the load to be equal to the current in the neutral. With a coffee pot plugged in that is working correctly, they will be equal, it won't trip. With a bad coffee pot with a short to ground, it will trip.

So, unless I'm missing something, I don't see why it would not work.

Reply to
trader4

Nestork is adamant about them being there, but I'm certainly not seeing them, so I think it just may be a Canada thing.

Reply to
RBM

message

I'm almost positive that a GFCI tester will be able to detect a neutral conductor connected to both neutral and ground on the device, otherwise people could easily fake a non grounded outlet. Since I've never tried it, I'm not sure that the receptacle would know or care. I will test this shortly.

Reply to
RBM

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Very good point!!!

Reply to
hrhofmann

As the neutral and ground are connected together at the breaker box I don't see how a simple tester can tell if one wire is ran and connected to the ground and neuteral at the receptical. Or for that mater if they are reversed or shorted to each other anywhere along the way.

They could be faked that way and without actually looking, the simple tester would miss that. Same as if they are reversed.

I could be missing something here as I worked mainly in an industrial enviroment and did very little with the 120 volt wiring, and even less with GFCI circuits.

I will not dispute the GFCI may not work as desired if hooked up wrong, but it will not trip if the load is ok.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Since the GFCI looks for an unbalance betwee the current going out on the hot lead and the current coming back on the neutral/ ground, if the hot lead going to an appliance should somehow short to the stove body or the kitchen faucet, or something, there will be an unbalance and the GFCI should trip.

Reply to
hrhofmann

It is sounding like a Canadian thing to me.

In the US an electric range receptacle would probably not have to be GFCI protected (not countertop). But would you want an accessible kitchen receptacle without GFCI protection (and in a grounded appliance)?

You could add GFCI protection at the range, but that costs more than $2.

An ordinary receptacle on the range has to have a fuse or circuit breaker. Where do they put that?

------------------------ The common 3 lite outlet testers don't have a clue if there is both a real neutral and ground. Ground connected to a neutral shows up as good. They also will show a rather high resistance (ineffective) ground connection as good. I have a tester that will detect improper ground connections, but it puts a test current on the ground and looks at the N-G voltage.

------------------------- The feature on a GFCI that detects a downstream N-G connection is interesting. If there is a N-G connection and you have current on the neutral conductor, the alternate path on the ground wire will trip the GFCI. The 'feature' will trip the GFCI with no current. It is done with a current transformer around the H and N that tries to push current downstream. If there is a N-G connection enough current is pushed to trip the GFCI. Also works if the GFCI is reverse wired H-N. If the H (which is wired as a N) is connected to G it will trip the GFCI.

Reply to
bud--

Yeah, I tested one today to see what would happen with various wiring scenarios. Clearly, the yellow plug in testers are very dumb. The ground fault can be connected to a hot leg and anything that creates a return path to the neutral buss, and work

Reply to
RBM

I was in HD in NJ yesterday and checked. Not a single stove with a receptacle. I didn't count how many they had, but would estimate it at about the 17 or so that you saw at your HD.

Reply to
trader4

I would think that it depends on whether the controls are along the front, or across the back.

My 1987 gas range with an OTR microwave has the controls along the front. It has a clock, timer, oven light, etc. No receptacle.

Don.

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Reply to
Don Wiss

I'm definitely leaning toward it being a Canada thing, however even if I go to HD Canada I can't find any listed online that have outlets listed in their specs.

Reply to
RBM

Apparently not, since HD had plenty of both. More with controls on the back. Not one had a receptacle.

Reply to
trader4

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