There are enough wires around it (it supplies two desktop computers, two
monitors, cable modem, sound amplifier, router, tv, and a light) that it
will be difficult to access without unplugging everything. As the battery
seems to be ok (just over 2 years old), I'll leave it where it is. It has
good air flow, and anytime I hear thunder, I turn everything off, including
the ups, an unplug it, just to be on the safe side. I trust it to handle
short outages, voltage spikes or drops, but not a nearby lightning strike.
I've lost a lot of electronic devices due to lightning strikes in the past.
I'll keep that in mind for when the battery eventually does go.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:17:40 AM UTC-4, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Unless you're doing business or other critical work, it's not
clear to me that you even need a UPS. I've never had one and
despite numerous power outages, never lost anything, had any
issue with the disk getting corrupted, etc. Typical apps like
word, excel, etc also do an autosave every 5 mins or so, and
that's saved and there too.
I have one now, but did not for decades before. My reasoning? You can
get them cheap now, about $50, they also act as a surge suppressor, it
saves some annoyances. I've never lost any data from a power failure.
I also put on in my family room but not for a computer. I have a
controller for lights that has a defective internal battery backup and
the TV box that takes forever to reboot once power is cut. At least
once a week that phase would have a power glitch and I've have to reset
the times in the controller and wait seemingly forever for the TV to go
on again. The power drop is usually just a second or so, enough to be a
Do I "need" it? No. It is strictly a matter of convenience that I'm
willing to pay $50 for.
Sounds like you have the same kind of cable box we had before switching to
Direct TV. The box used to boot fairley fast when we first got it after
moving here. Then it started taking longer to boot up. It was not usually
a power loss, but once a month or so I had to reboot it because it would
lock up or something else.
I must do a lot more work than you do in 5 minutes. I save more frequently
I have one on the home computer, but I also have the cordless phone and
internet modem/wifi plugged into it as well.
I've got them on my three desktop computers.
Surge protectors were not enough when power failed stopping computer in
its tracks and losing hard drive sectors. This was years ago and maybe
computers react better but why take chances. I buy cheap units as I
only want enough power to safely power down computers. In maybe 20
years, I've only had to replace one UPS.
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:08:28 -0400, Frank <"frank
My first UPS was for some reaons 70 or 80% off at a computer store. They
Not APC and it had it's on/off switch in a cupola at the top, so it was
a lot easier to reach when the UPS was on the floor.
When I looked inside, there were plastic ribs holding the battery in
place so I broke out the ribs and put in a bigger battery. I figured
itwould only recharge as fast as it could, and I never drained the
battery anyhow, That one failed, but I still don't think the bigger
battery caused the failure. ????
I have 12 of them (1500VA units) servicing various bits of kit, here.
At the very least, they are "outlet multipliers"; consider that you
typically need several outlets for a "workstation" (computer,
monitor, printer, desk lamp, charging stand for mouse, yada yada...)
You should be able to find *discarded* UPS's within walking distance,
if you put your mind to it! :> They are frequently discarded by
companies and individuals -- esp when their batteries need replacing
("manufacturer prices" being somewhat outrageous; my last *pair* of
7.2AHr batteries set me back $50, total -- I think manufacturer
wants double that)
You typically design a charger to charge at the battery's C/20 rate.
Bigger battery tends to have higher charge rate. Or, said another
way, a charger expecting a smaller battery will take longer to charge
a larger battery. It is conceivable that the charger could overheat
if it was underdesigned (i.e., expecting a shorter duty cycle) but
probably not a real concern.
Said still another way, installing a *smaller* battery can lead to woes.
[This assumes the batteries have the same chemistry and that the charger
isn't a total crap-job]
There is a fair bit of variation between APC models. But, *most*
APC models seem to "cook" batteries. Conspiracy theorists may
assume it is to boost battery sales. Or, you can choose to think
their designers are incompetent. Or, you can choose to think they
are opting to bring the battery back to it's "recharged" state
as quickly as possible (to protect against the *next* outage).
Some models allow you to adjust the float voltage of the battery.
Others require hardware modifications if you want to prolong battery
Also, the depth of discharge that the battery experiences affects
its lifespan. (Keep in mind that many UPS's -- esp APC -- run a
short test cycle on the battery daily. AFAICT, there isn't an
*easy* way to defeat this test)
Apparently, the batteries are ok in the one unit. Try putting the
'good' batteries into the other unit so see if it works, before ordering
new ones. As others have said, you can get good batteries for cheap on
the internet. I've replace mine at least 3 or 4 times over the last 15
or so years and it's still going. When I was 1st gifted with this old
AT&T UPS, it wouldn't even pass line current to the output. I borrowed
a bunch of 6 volt batteries and connected 4 in series ... this UPS
actually uses 24 volts instead of the usual 12 volts. Once the new
batteries were connected, it started passing line voltage through.
Apparently, on this unit, when the batteries are dead, it tells you by
not working at all. I've kept this unit because it is built like a tank
inside. It has big hefty line filtering also.
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:02:08
What a system!
The other answers were valuable and I'm going to reply to them later,
but this is the answer I was looking for.
Somehow I was suspicious that this could happen, so I'll see if it's
happening to me.
Somewhere I have some worn-out 12-volt batteries but since they're
buried, now is just the time to do what you say, because I'm going out
soon to buy 12 volt batteries for the other two (There's another small
one that I didn't mention.)
Now would also be the time to order by mail, since I need 2, maybe 3,
and I would save on shipping, but these things fit so tightly, and the
dimensions listed for the NP7-12, for example, one dimension was smaller
than my old battery but another was bigger than it and wouldnt' fit in
the UPS. Better to buy in person in this case. I'll take both
batteries and one UPS with me.
Even the dimensions given on the APC page for the specific UPS were like
that, one maximum dimension bigger than my battery, but one smaller.
Neither of which makes sense since my battery exactly fits the space. In
fact in two of the three cases, it's an APC battery (maybe the original
one?) Hard to believe they would get their own dimensions wrong.
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:39:20 -0400, micky
Yes. First, even the one that was marked Working was like yours. It
did nothing when plugged in, but I brought it to the store and he let me
try the new battery in it. I had no load and the Online light was off
even after I plugged it in, but after I pushed the button, that light
flashed green, in a few seconds the yellow self-test light went on, and
when that went off, the first light was steady green.
Then I took the two batteries I bought and tested the one at home that
Paul pointed out had terrible Amazon rattngs. It was dead too, even
when plugged in with the old batteries ---- What a crummy design ---
but with new ones -- they didnt fit in the case but the wires were long
enough -- it acted just like in the previous paragraph. I
couldn't hear it hum but my fingers could feel it, including for a
minute or two after I turned it off, even though it had only been on for
couple minutes. So it takes that long to cool off when it's barely
gotten hot I forgot to test it with the lamp, darn, but it probably
works. Well there's that transfer issue. It uses a very common size
battery, two NP7-12's, which will fit my home burglar alarm too.
Air can get in through any of the 8 3-prong holes for electric plugs
that are not being used. Or they can go out that way, but that puts all
the air near the back of the box. I suppose I should drill a couple
holes in the case, maybe 1/2? inch on each side. One inch?
So now the expert on Newsgroup posting has taken to replying to his own
posts? Wonderful. Take bit of your own "expert" advice and start
trimming your posts. We really don't need to read the entire thread
over and over. Nor, for that matter, do we need to know the saga of
your missing wallet and who, exactly found it and where.
Somehow I don't think your idea of drilling 1/2" or 1" holes in the case
of your UPS for added ventilation is the brightest idea. To ensure you
don't accidentally damage something and not have a working UPS when you
need it, I'd suggest drilling those holes while the unit is plugged in.
That way you'll know immediately if you damaged something. :)
The XS900 is a "loser".
Put it back on the curb.
Check the reviews on Amazon. This is how
I judge them.
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
An internal fan with no vent ?
I hope not. Maybe the thing is
ferroresonant and the noise is the
The APC site claims to be "down for maintenance" at the
moment, or I'd have a look at the user manual. It could
be an AVR unit for example (automatic voltage regulator)
and "line interactive". That means, it is buggering
with the power at all times, one way or another.
And yes, replacing batteries makes perfect sense, on the
mid-range ones. I paid $250 for my UPS when new, the
battery lasted *ten years*, and a new battery cost $60.
The price on batteries has come down slightly over
the years, presumably since all the batteries are made
in China. And if you take the rate of inflation into
account, the price has come down.
One secret to battery life, you can do nothing about.
But you can control the "level of discharge". I'm always
careful, if I'm in the room, to shut down the computer
loads then switch off the ATX supply, to spare the battery
when the lights go out. The shallower the discharge, the
longer they last. Don't rely on the low voltage cutoff on
the UPS itself, to "protect" the battery. The battery life
can last longer, if you take care of it.
I don't consider the UPS to be an "alternate power source",
it's merely a way to ride out one-second outages, when the
utility switches over stuff. I have one computer cabled to
the automatic shutdown feature, and Windows happens to have
the right driver for that APC unit, already in Windows. For
the second computer connected to it, I shut down that
The low end of the UPS market, the failure rate out of the
box is 10%. And the Amazon description for the XS900,
shows it just doesn't last with time.
There are different kinds of UPS architectures.
There are SPS (standby power supply). There
are AVR (automatic voltage regulation). There
are more than five different types. The SPS remains
cool to the touch, because the inverter doesn't
run when AC power is available. The battery charges
to a constant voltage (and you can stick your meter
on the battery terminals after a 24 hour charge
period and verify the terminal voltage is
correct). That's one check I could do after installing
the new battery.
The UPS has the ability to do a load test. It places
a known load on the battery for a few seconds, and checks
the resulting terminal voltage. The output impedance of
the battery is considered a health indicator. A high
impedance battery, drops to a low voltage when loaded.
A UPS which "beeps" once every 24 hours, has just done
the short load test, and found the terminal voltage
to be wanting.
And a 60W light bulb makes a fine load. It is resistive.
The load is relatively well controlled (draws 120W when
cold, has a "surge" due to the cold resistance), but
eventually settles down to 60W. If the output voltage
of the UPS is not correct (makes 200V rather than 113V),
then the color of the filament when lit gives a quick
indication of whether the output voltage is correct or
not. I can easily spot when my power here drops to 100V
at the mast, just by the color of the remaining incandescent
bulbs I use. LED bulbs on the other hand, are regulated,
and have no characteristic useful for analyzing what
the utility is doing to you.
For your next curbside UPS, check the reviews and
see if the unit stinks or not. If a lot of users
complain of weird symptoms within the first year
or two, chances are fixing one up is not a wise
use of time or money.
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
I didn't even think to do look at this, maybe because I own it already.
Wow. 2 stars out of 5, which I consider to be 1 star out of 4 since one
can't give something 0 stars.
I didnt' think APC would make anything that bad. Unless people have
unreasonable expectations because it's a famous brand. -- I haven't
read the reviews yet. Only 11 reviews.
That's the second lowest thing I've seen. The lowest was a battery
powered jumper box for cars, that Pepboys marked down from 50 to 30.
Since I'd been wanting one, I bought it and when I got home, I looked
it up like you did. I owned it but could return it. It was only 1.7
stars out of 5. But when I returned it, the clerk, and clerks often
don't give a darn, seemed surprised and told me they sell them and never
hear back, that is, people are satisfied. (Of course they are only used
when the car won't start, so maybe it's too late to return them then!)
I think Pep Boys marked them down because the rating was so low and they
couldnt' sell them at the regular price. It was part of a Grand
Reopening Sale (even though they were never closed) and they had other
things cheap but nothing I needed. Well they had the little red floor
jack 40 marked down to 20 or so, but I had already bought one and used
it for 5 days. Plus for pulling the broken fence post out of the
ground). Where was I?
That's what one of the reviews says. I'll take a look. I'd be glad to
put a hole in the case, but it sounds like it's too late for that. But
I''ll still do the check I told Art I would do.
Well mine's not humming..... because it won't do anything yet!!
Do I detect a note of suspicion, the quotes and all? ;-)
Anyhow I got the manual earlier today (been up since 5) and it's only
two pages long. I think it's funny that in an age where printers etc.
come with 200, 300 page manuals, they have a 2 page manual.
A longer one makes people think they're getting more for their money.
Especially when they could go on with situations like the one I asked
about, but they don't. .
That's what I thought, but I'm susceptible to suggestion -- in many
areas and I've known this for a long time -- so when two of them
suggested what they did, I had doubts.
Much better than spending 250, plus it's easier to go buy a battery than
to have to shop for another UPS, evaluate features and price and all
Yes. And I don't know why people need a big one. I almost never have
more than one file that hasn't been saved, and that's the file I'm
typing in at the moment. Before I leave this window, I"ll save it.
So it takes 10 seconds to save the file, 30 seconds maybe to wait for
the power to come on if it usually does, and a couple minutes to
What do they do when the voltage goes down? Just go dark like digital
TV with a weak signal?
There are two issues involved:
- how long do you want to support your load
- what's the magnitude of the *peak* load.
E.g., a 500VA UPS isn't going to power a 400W load (W != VA);
REGARDLESS of how large the battery in that 500VA UPS happens
I use 1500VA UPS's, here -- though I doubt any of them see more than
a 500W load.
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:14:44
BTW, I too t hink overall the reviews are worth reading and valuable but
a) it's well known t hat people who are dissatisfied are a lot more
likely to complain than those who are satisfied are to say so.
b) in this case one guy who gave it one star said "Battery replacement
on this is far too complicated for a consumer product". But it's
actually as simple as can be. Doesn't even require a screwdriver. Just
press on the plastic where the tabs are and the big door slides open,
pour out the battery and disconnect the two wires (which have female
spade connectors, on miine. The webpage shows a battery with one 3-wire
connector, maybe even easier.)
c) Another guy who gave it five stars said "Thing has worked fabulously
for 3 years and is still working great. Every now and again, I've
removed the battery, popped off the rubber stoppers, filled with
distilled water, dried, capped off the holes with rubber stoppers,
charged each battery using a car battery charger at 3 amps, reinstalled.
These batteries just don't quit running if you maintain them properly.
To bad APC doesn't put this in the manual." The owner of Battery
Warehouse reminded me that there is no water inside, but some kind of
jelly.. What a blowhard the reviewer is.
d) one study somewhere said that there are people who complain on
online reviews when they've never even bought or used the item. It said
their reviews tended to ramble about the general topic wihtout going
into specifics about the item. Not surprising. That's why Amazon
verifies if you've bought the product from them and labels those reviews
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