I have an ECOWater softener and I would NEVER use it for pool or garden.
Our water is 28 grain and the softener is for indoor water use only.
I would never buy a softner from a big box store or sears. Do your
reasearch, many of them are poorly built with poor quality valves. Many
of them are built by Ecowater, HOWEVER Ecowater build their own branded
with 5 layers of resin and much better quality valves than the 1 layer
of resin for the sears/home depot crap.
Ours has filtration and we paid $2100 installed. We expect it to last
25 years. Make sure you do your research on Valves for water softeners
Our softener is programmed to flush out every 550 gallons. Frankly I
wouldn't waste softened water on outdoor use and it's not reccommended
Should mention that Culligan has had bankruptcy issues in the past and
you may have to research your local dealer. Some are great and some are
poor but I bet most are better that the big box stores.
he's mixing up r/o and softeners, knowing that you don't know any better.
yes, you can't use an r/o in place of a whole house softener, but they
do similar things. the r/o will filter out a lot more 'stuff' than a
On Thu, 17 May 2012 21:09:04 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:
Thanks for confirming that.
The 2060 Kinetico system 'is' a two-tank (actually three when you count
the brine tank) where one works then it switches to the second one for
cleaning and then back to the first - all with the water-operated valves
On Fri, 18 May 2012 04:57:22 +0000, Arklin K. wrote:
I forgot to mention that the salesman 'sized' the system based on the
size of the house and the pipes (e.g., I have smallish 1 inch or maybe
1.5 inch pipes he said).
You need to do some googling. There are plenty of web sites that can
educate you better than I can. However, some comments from my
I never felt that the treated water tasted salty.
I had 22 grains of hardness. The metal spray arms on my dishwasher
were white from the calcium deposits and clogged regularly. After
installing a water softener, no more issues.
A water softener should be sized based on the number of people,
overall water usage and the water hardness. Pipe size mainly
determines the controller valve inlet size and the max flow possible.
If you plan on supplying soft water to your pool, you will need to
add that to your overall water usage. You will need a larger unit if
that is your plan. Most installations are set up to only treat inside
water usage. If sodium is a concern, you might want to run an
untreated supply to the kitchen.
I seriously doubt that hard water will ever clog your pipes. It will
cause buildup where the water can evaporate such as in the dishwater,
toilets, sinks, faucets, etc. I don't know about the water heater. I
suspect you could get some buildup (not a foot!) and lose some
efficiency and maybe a little bit of life.
They will tell you about all the money you will save on cleaning
products. In reality, you should be able to use less detergent in the
dishwasher and washing machine but the saving are not that great. Your
shower doors will be easier to clean.
My first water softener was from Sears for $500. Last about 7+ years
until the resin tank started to fail. Worked fine, never clogged. I
would not recommend Sears. The second unit was purchased on the web.
This one had a Fleck valve with demand driven regeneration. Cost about
$800 about 4 years ago and should last 10+ years. Very easy to install
but you do need power. The support from the dealer was excellent.
You will need way more than 15 pounds of salt.
Regeneration is usually done at night. During that time (roughly 1-2
hours), you will have untreated water. Who cares if at 2 am that the
water is hard.
These systems tend to reliable. If the controller fails, they can be
repaired or replaced. The resin does have a life span and can also be
My recommendation is to consider buying on the web or maybe a local
dealer. Find a dealer that will help you properly size the unit. You
do not want to vastly oversize or undersize the unit. From what I
remember, the unit should be sized so that regeneration happens every
7-14 days. Stay with a high quality controller (Fleck is one popular
brand). Install it yourself or hire a plumber or handyman to do for
you. Make sure that you have a means to bypass the system if service
is needed. A lot of controllers have this as part of the system.
Unless there is more to the story, a $6000 dollar system is overkill.
my dad and step mom have high blood pressure so the drinking water is
run thru a osmosis filter.
honestly i cant tell a difference in salt taste between osmosis and
the most interesting trouble they had was a osmosis filter system
failure while away on vacation. their home is in phoenix one floor on
a slab. they had water leaking out the doors when they got home from a
week cruise. the house had over a foot of water filling it.
they had trouble opening the doors, i think they had to break a window
to get in. the water pressure held all the doors shut. this was years
ago. a tank seam burst
dad wasnt upset homeowners insurance and the osmosis manufacturer paid
for wall repairs, a complete repaint, all new carpeting, a bunch of
new furniture, and a week at a nice hotel with jacuzzi while
everything was fixed..
On Fri, 18 May 2012 05:00:19 +0000 (UTC), "Arklin K."
He sized it by more than just the pipe size. He also sized it per
your water hardness. The internal gear set is different for different
water hardness. So if you are going to install it yourself, you have
to ensure they ship you one with the proper gearset in it.
Mine uses a #4 gear set.
The one thing I dont like about my Kinetico is that it just plain
doesnt run with an RO unit. The water flow rate is too low to turn
I have an aquarium and generate about 50 gallons of RO water a week
for use in it. The RO unit has about a 4 to 1 waste water ratio, so
its using about 200 gallons to make those 50 gals.
The softener is always needing a manual cycle because the RO unit just
doesnt get the water flowing fast enough to turn the timing gears.
The Kinetico is actually a very nice unit. And of all the other
brands I've ever owned, it is the most miserly with salt usage of them
all. So the salesman may be correct with his salt estimates.
Mine's about 13 years old. Back in '99 it only cost $2000 to install.
I couldn't find "fleck valve" on Wikipedia - but the company has an FAQ:
Which is better?
Totally hydraulic for regeneration or the fleck type with an electric
timer for regeneration?
Beats me. I can see a minor advantage to basing regeneration on the amount
of water actually used but have no idea as to what could go out of whack in
the metering. All in all, I like Thoreau's axiom of, "Simplify, simplify".
So does that mean the Fleck 5600SE regenerates on gallons or on time?
That is, does it assume, say, 60 gallons/day/person and then regenerate
when that calculation reaches 800 gallons (whether or not 800 gallons
were actually used) ... or does it actually count gallons?
I don't know if it matters - but I'm trying to figure this new Fleck
water just took that thing out. Upon calling Bradford customer service
[very easy to reach, very knowledgeable] I was told 'don't mess with a
water softener, our heaters are designed to work WITH hard water and
if you use soft water, it takes a toll on them. It'll hurt them'
Wow, THAT from the people who MAKE hot water heaters!
I'm glad softeners cost a lot, are water hogs, and do untold
environmental damage. Unless you know of one that works differently.
Can't afford distillation.
So, now I just replace the heating element(s) every year [a cheap
nuisance maintenance job] and live with the water the way it is. It
DOES make good coffee. where we were before the city supplied water
made the coffee smell like fish and produced some kind of solid semi-
floating scuzz all over the inside of pot and cups.
Just a note, here in AZ the well water is supposed to be hard, leaves
white crust everywhere, but rinsing while showering it FEELS softer
than water we used to be in [city water deemed fairly soft] takes
forever to rinse soap off, like when you're staying at a hotel with
soft water and can never rinse off that soapy feeling.
Has anybody else got feedback from hot water heater manufacturers of
repute [like Bradford] that claim their product is hurt by softeners?
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