Precisely. Although I used to be very concerned that the six or seven
worst-case hijackers here would give bad advice to newbies and needed to be
"watched" I finally relented. That's when I began evaluating the motives
and overall "helpfulness" of posters. Scolders and hijackers got marked
down and when it was clear that more than half their posts were worthless, I
kill-filed them. It was a remarkably quick process for some of them.
I've debated whether I should post my twit list and the posts that got
people elected to it for newbies to consider, but since most of the newbies
in AHR these days seem to be sock puppets meant to bypass existing twit
lists, it seemed "unhelpful" in the long run.
Using a kill file has been a remarkably positive change because I no longer
feel compelled to correct the massive amounts of deliberate misinformation
(along with the sheer stupidity) that the thread hijackers spew.
I now believe that anyone who agrees with them is either a sick sock puppet
or not amenable to changing their opinions through logical discussion.
Doing so is not only a waste of time, but is *exactly* what they want.
People who spend precious time debating with them have that much less time
to help people with legitimate home repair problems. That makes two good
reasons to twit list the hijackers.
I also believe that it won't be long before any newbie arriving here reaches
the same conclusion. Seeing new people react incredulously to some of the
flame bait that's constantly churned out renewed my faith in people.
The question I face now is do I twit-list the "good" posters that feel
constantly compelled to feed these trolls? Sadly, I think the answer is
going to be a resounding "yes." Feeding trolls is not nearly as bad as
trolling, but it enables trolls to do their dirty work and shouldn't be
Let's just hope that fewer and fewer "good" posters feel the need to respond
to any of these hijackers and that the "jackers" are then compelled to argue
amongst themselves. Like you, I only see certain bad posters when good ones
respond to their trolling.
Of course, knowing that they are being kill-filed will cause a number of
them to nym-shift. Fortunately, these sock puppets betray themselves
eventually (and pretty quickly since they are basically one-trick ponies)
and when they do, my twit-list awaits. Unfortunately some smart people with
valuable insight are so rude and belligerent I've had to twit-list them too.
Let's hope they are smart enough to eventually realize that their bad
attitude results in them being "thread enders" - the kind of people that end
threads because no one will engage them.
Agreed. I've thought about posting a list of all the names of intelligent,
thoughtful posters who have either bailed completely or gone into lurking
mode and ask what happened to them.
When I look through my cache of stored messages from years gone by there are
many posters who seem to have disappeared after being savaged by the same
old six or seven posters that just can't control their anger. I admire
Higgs Boson for sticking around after being called an "old bag" and really
feel sad that no one points out that sort of name-calling behavior is just
not acceptable among normal human beings. It's the last childish resort of
an emotionally defective person that somehow never managed to grow up.
What these hijackers are trying to do is just "ethnic cleansing" on a small
scale. They are determined to drive off others who present facts and
opinions that are different so they can wallow in a mud pit full of
like-minded people ("minded" may be to strong). The best way to combat that
sort of sick thought process is to totally ignore them. It makes them even
more vile in their vituperation and although they don't realize it,
sabotages whatever valid points they were trying to make.
It also makes it quite obvious to newcomers that they are being deliberately
isolated and are not representative of the bulk of AHR posters, most of whom
are dedicated to helping others with home repair problems.
As I'm sure you are aware, your situation is not what the "do not
pre-rinse" instruction apply to.
In any case, have you you figured out whether or not a rinse only cycle
would use less energy than your sink rinse? That's also what some DW
manuals suggest, but of course it depends on how many dishes you are
rinsing. For one plate and a glass, the sink probably is better.
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:30:49 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I only run the dishwasher here every few days. I don't rinse
by hand or run a rinse cycle. No problems with the dishwasher
not cleaning everything just fine. The only thing I will do is
if I have something exceptional, like raw egg in a mixing bowl
or cake batter, then I will rinse that off by hand first. But
regular dishes, utensils, etc go in without rinsing and when
run a couple days later, they come out fine.
Right, new DW do not need rinsing. They have soft food disposals built
in so most anything can go in. Personally, I do give the worst of the
dishes a quick pssst under the faucet, but that's about it. Maybe the
dirt bits act as an abrasive like a sandblaster?
Two weeks ago I installed a new KitchenAid. My last one was good, this
one is great. I use the "Pro Wash" ccle and the sensors determine the
cycle. Everything comes out perfect and sparkles. They should at the
cost of the better machines.
One caution. Do not fill the detergent cup all the way. You don't need
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:54:46 PM UTC-8, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
ser to not rinse off particlate matter before placing item in DW. They see
m to claim that the DW is actually DESIGNED to work better with a lil' bit
insertion, but redesigning the whole thing for them?
reason why the DW is so designed?
Ed, speaking of detergent cups, what do you -- and others -- think of these
little "pillows" -- presumably containing both detergent and film-removal
(can't think of proper term) which are inserted in the detergent cup. They
take the place of powdered detergent in its cup and liquid [whatsitcalled)
in its reservoir.
I got a box of them at Costco which is lasting a long time. They are somew
hat more expensive, but very convenient and seem to be doing the job for me
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:18:53 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson
For years, I've used Cascade gel and it works well. KitchenAid
though, recommends using the Cascade pillows like you have, but they
still recommend using a rinse aid in the dispenser. The samples worked
well and I may switch once I use up what we have.
I have to wonder though, it they want you to use them for superior
cleaning or if there is some sort of financial arrangement. They also
tell you to use Affresh once in a while to clean out the machine. So
does Maytag washers now and it is made by Whirlpool.
On Thu 14 Nov 2013 03:57:59a, Ed Pawlowski told us...
The instructions for our 1-1/2 year old Bosch DW specificaly
indicated no pre-washing or rinsing. It will even removed all but
the very worst burnt on residue on a baking dish. I don't remember
offhand if they recomnmended a specific detergent or rinse agent, but
I use the Cascade Complete pillows, along with Oxi-Clean Diswasher
Booster in the rinse agent dispenser. Phoenix is known for
particularly hard water, but we have absolutely spotless dishware and
glasses, and even plastic ware.
Once a month (or when I remember) I use a diswasher cleaner (haven't
tried the Afresh brand yet), but I do use Afresh cleaner in our
Maytag front load clothes washer.
FWIW, for those folks who complain about mold or mildrew in their f/l
clothes washers, their failure to leave the door open either betwen
washing sessions, or at least until the areas around and within the
seals are dry is usually the cause.
~~ If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. ~~
To follow up, I've switched 100% to Cascade Platinum tables. The
difference is amazing and the dishes sparkle like new. I put in a 30
year old CorningWare dish and you cannot tell it from a brand new one.
I'm amazed at everything coming out of the DW. I don't know how much to
attribute to the machine and how much to the detergent, but as a team,
they do a fantastic job.
I bought the Cascade at BJ's and it works out toe 21¢ a load. At the
local supermarket they were near twice that.
DId you ever actually own a Bosch? My screen stays as clean and
shiny as the day it was installed. I think I found a stray kernal of
corn on it once, but nothing more.
Having said that, I initially had my doubts about my choice of a
Bosch for several reasons, as I had only previously owned dishwashers
that had a soft wasate disposer and either a heating element in the
bottom or forced air heating for the drying cycle. My doubts
vanished after the first load.
The SS tank and racks of my Bosch would stay as clean even if I
didn't use a dishwasher cleaner. However, the main function of the
cleaner is to dissolve mineral buildup in the pump and interior
plumbing parts of the machine. I probabaly wouldn't use a cleaner if
I didn't live in an area where the water did have such a high mineral
I would install a water softener if I could, but the configuration of
my buildinhg doesn't allow for that. If I had a water softener, I
would have no need for a "dishwasher cleaner".
If you do have a front-loader and you close the door immediately
after finishing a load, leaving moisture in the tank and seal, you're
just asking for trouble. Virtually every manufacturer recommends
that the door be left open until everything is thoroughly dried. As
to top-loading machines, for the most part they don't reuire it
because there is no seal to the opening and moisture isn't trapped
In any event, in my case it isn't a hardship to leave the door open
as my laundry equipment is in a large walk-in pantry with no foot
trafic and closed in by a door off my kitchen.
~~ If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. ~~
Nope. They got tossed out of the running because of the screen rather
than having a grinder. Bad idea. We bought a kitchen full of
Electrolux, instead. Much better all around. We were quite happy
with them so will do it again - no changes.
That's not the issue. The problem is having to clean the screen. Food
*will* get trapped in it and it *does* have to be cleaned. That's its
Not buying it but then your statement is irrelevant WRT HE clothes
washers requiring cleaning.
I'm glad I don't need one. We had one in our first house and it was
nothing but a PITA.
Precisely the point. If the door has to be left open, it's a NO SALE.
BTW, you're not correct WRT (HE, anyway) top-loaders. They also now
have an issue with smell, for the same reasons. The recommendation is
to leave them open, also. No real problem because they don't take any
more floor space when open, aren't a tripping hazard, and aren't
susceptible to damage.
It's wasted space in any floorplan. *BAD* idea. We'll be staying
Any floor plan? While technically true, if the space is never used for
anything else, there's no impact.
Another: In my laundry room, we have 3 coolers stacked in the space between
the washer and the sink. Leaving the door open in front of the coolers has
no impact on the usable floor space of my laundry area. Does the plexiglas
on the inside of the door protrude 5.5" into the room when fully open? Yes.
Do I ever walk in the 5.5" area across the face of my washer and dryer? No.
What you emphatically call a bad idea is a non-issue in certain
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