Well the "claims" are based directly on the federal govt which has set
2009 as the turnoff date for NTSC. Now, its possible, indeed I would say probably likely that the date could be pushed out again, but I think the claims as of now are in fact correct.
Who posted opinionated stuff first? You or I?
Granted a material difference.
I have no problem with your wanting your pretty pictures in highly defined resolution. You will pay for what your get. I begrudge you nothing in this regard.
Remember the "Vast Wasteland"? It still exists. Millions of viewers lounge around every evening in front of the tube or son-of-tube. They scarcely take notice of what's on the screen because they know it's mostly drivel. ATSC/HD drivel is not materially superior to NTSC drivel.
Lord help po' me. I read books! :-) Part of me wants to pitch the goddamn tube out the window.
You haven't exactly flooded the byte-waves with source-info your-own-self.
Suggest you Google "ATSC tuners" re price and availability. And who wants an external box when they don't need one?
Depends on lots of things.
They'll be cashing in on a public resource. It's an entirely different topic, but I damned well don't like what they're doing with our money.
It's something you've chosen not to contemplate.
Let the record show that the "mindless dummy" phrase was of your own devise. I implied only gullibility and/or personal interest. The net is rife with both.
More sourceless claims. Even if true, ATSC is still an unproven tech. in the homes of a majority of US folks. More than that, the relative utility of ATSC vs NTSC given costs of each is very much unproven. It's not enough to (correctly) say that it's a "much prettier picture".
Lordy Mercy! A conspiracy of one? Hype??
And, as an EE, I'm sure you and your employer(s) reap no benefits whatsoever (direct or indirect) from the ATSC mandate. :-)
Perhaps as an EE, you have some idea of what a mess they made of NTSC over the years?
And you think it will truly be different with ATSC?
That's it, I'm out of here. No further response will ensue.
Puddin'
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
Well you began the discussion back and forth with this:
"I was considering purchase of a new tv and had little idea which way to jump (HD, etc), so I asked a career cable tv friend. He advised to do nothing, buy nothing, as the proverbial shit is *bound* to hit the fan around 2009, and noone can much predict how it will all shake out. I expect a hideous, hideous mess and a massive, behemoth boondoggle. "
So, I'd say it's clear who posted opinionated stuff first.
Hmmm, now how can that be? You claimed that HD/ATSC was just a scam being perpetrated on a dumb public by "the industry" through hype and NTSC was perfectly fine. Yet, now there is a "material difference" So, which is it?
Then why were you considering buying a new TV at all? Just turn it off.
Just do nothing, your problem will probably go away in 2009
Now please. You posted this gem:
I told you every friggin TV set sold in the US as of NOW has a frigging ATSC digital tuner in it.
and this gem:
I told you it's been available for years in most of the US. You could do a little web search and find out yourself, but any info available, according to you, is industry hype. Here's an idea, call up your local TV stations and ask.
This isn;t some deep dark unknown mystery. The electronics chips have been developed and are in mass production. At the present rate,
16 million will be sold this year, which means they are in volume production and inexpensive. They are going into every TV set in the US made today and haven't impacted the price noticeably. So, what great technological, manufacturing, or economic hurdle remains? All that needs to be done is put the same chips in a little box with a power supply and remote. Which means the cost projections of the standalone ATSC tuners costing $75 bucks in 2009 are based on real data and are accurate. Not convinced? How about this? You can buy an ATSC tuner box today on Ebay for $90I have contemplated it, as has Congress, the broadcast industry, consumer electronics industry, and the 30% of US homes that already own an HDTV. All you do is come up with nonsense like this without any explanation about exactly what is troubling you so much. Instead of listening to your cable guy friend and buying into his FUD, you can go down to the mall tonight and buy that TV with an ATSC tuner in it. You'd never even know it's there.
I'll let other judge who has a command of the facts and knows what he's talking about and who obviously knows less than nothing.
Here's a source for you:
"CEA Report Finds 30 Percent of U.S. Households Own Hi-Def TV
ARLINGTON, June 27: A new report from the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) reveals that 30 percent of U.S. households now own high-definition televisions (HDTV)-expected to rise to 36 percent by the end of this year-but also finds that more consumers are buying HDTVs to improve their movie and gaming experiences rather than for watching television programming
The new CEA study, HDTV: You Have the Set, But Do You Have the Content?, found that 16 million high-definition televisions (HDTV) will sell this year, bringing the total number of HDTVs sold in the U.S. to 52.5 million"
Yet according to you and your cable buddy genius, it's all hype and unproven.
No, just two dummies.
Yeah that's right you dope, because I'm self employed today as a trader and have nothing to do with any company involved in any way with TV or consumer electronics.
Funny from the guy that wants to keep NTSC going and says how its all the vast majority want or need. LOL And for the record, anyone who understands how far NTSC got us for half a century would not refer to it a mess that someone made.
That's good, we've had enough of you making an ass of yourself.
That is not true, as has already been posted here a few times. The law applies to OTA BROADCASTING, not the video format itself. Other uses of NTSC, such as cable and security cameras are not affected.
[snip]
When someone says "turnoff date for NTSC is 2009", I think it's clear that they mean OTA broadcasting of NTSC, ie, the transmitter is being turned off. We all know the FCC isn't gonna come into your house and turn off the NTSC output from your VCR or security camera. If you're going to state that the claim is false, then you should be specific about what exactly you are disagreeing with. Your initial statement that the claims are false, with no explanation, would lead people to believe that nothing is being turned off.
No, but some cable providers are already trying to muscle people into getting digital STBs claiming the FCC is requiring them to remove analog. Interestingly there are a lot of people who just don't care about digital/premium channels etc. From what I have read the cable companies still have >50% of their users with basic plans and no STBs.
I read what people actually write.
So, you read things, make up stuff, and blame the writer. I never said "nothing is being turned off". That is a creation of your imagination.
BTW, I continue to examine my sig (which is a text file), and it has the correct line terminator in all places. I am not causing it to be mishandled (ignoring the second line terminator, while honoring all the others). Look elsewhere for a bug. It also doesn't include that "- Hide quoted text -, - Show quoted text -" **** that Google keeps adding for no apparent reason.
Apparently there is no such FCC requirement. That's all I meant.
Yes, the cable company here does seem to be trying to get everyone to have one of their boxes (while saying nothing about Cable CARD).
Who is responsible for mutilating my sig? There IS a line terminator after my name.
I didn't make up anything. In a discussion in the context of converting to ASTC, HD, etc, you posted:
"There's a lot of (wrong) claims that NTSC won't exist after 2009. I expect an eventual lack of NTSC, but it will take a lot longer than that. "
Now do you think that lent clarity to the discussion? If you wanted to clarify what is going on, you could instead have simply said the
2009 date applies to broadcast NTSC, which won't exist after 2009. That is what the general discussion has been about in this thread, moving from NTSC to ATSC and HD, and some folks complaining because they will need a DTV converter box for OTA after NTSC is turned off in 2009. Everybody knows it's silly to think that in Feb 2009 the FCC is gonna come turn off your VCR output or your security camera that is still NTSC . Your post left the impression that talk about 2009 is all based on false claim. In fact, your whole reply actually makes little sense, because NTSC will of course exist in some form not just a lot longer, but indefinitely, if you want to extend the discussion to all the consumer electronics, VCR tapes, DVD;s etc that are NTSC compatible. They aren't going to vanish.And where are these false claims that anything other than NTSC OTA is going to vanish? If you keep in context the discussion, I don't see any such claims have been made here.
The $ increase, suprised me since I haven't seen and increase in CRT's in 20 years.
Your post (below) reminds me of the 3rd rock from the sun episode when the aliens buy a dvd, a huge sound system and a big screen tv. And as they are (sitting around) bragging about the quality , one alien's earth GF reminds them they're watching 'Gremlins'...!! That line killed me. And it was quite true. In most cases people have built an altar in worship of 'what' exactly? I'd be afraid to see Bill O'Reilly's face in any more detail than I already do..Or do I need to see Flava Flav smack his bitch down in more detail?
There remains kinks in the digital techonogy such as the blur I reffered to in my OP. Delivery of so much resolution (data?) takes time and if the players move too fast, that can eat up bandwith and slow down delivery and cause a blur. At least that is my understanding of it. Kinda like when I scroll too fast on my puter? To me it's just not worth it.
I recetly purchased 3 of the 'old' style tv's for a new home. I was assured on many fronts that the change would only affect OTA broadcast..
Re: CRT TVs Group: alt.home.repair Date: Wed, Jun 27, 2007, 10:36pm (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Puddin'=A0Man) On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:41:08 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: On Jun 27, 9:49 am, Puddin' Man wrote: I'd say I'm more aware of what's going on than you are. Faced with a decision of buying a TV, I prefer to find out the facts, which are readily available Industry hype. Look, there is plenty of info available today about HDTV from a variety of resources, many of which are not connected to some evil industry conspiracy. =A0 =A0 You obviously won't even look at it, yet you go around telling people calamity is ahead. Who posted opinionated stuff first? You or I? You can stick you head in the sand, while the rest of us move ahead. and actually look at an HDTV compared to a regular one. The facts are, ATSC broadcasting is up and running. The 85%+ who have cable or sat have HD available. Network prime time is in HD. NYC even has HD livecam from news helicopters. The first HD DVDs and players are appearing. All new TVs sold in the US now have a built-in ATSC tuner. The prices for HDTVs have dropped dramatically. And 16 million HDTVs will be sold this year. I've seen 'em. In the store (a somewhat artificial environment), they look better. But not -that- much better. And do you know what you were looking at? =A0 Just because it's an HDTV doesn't mean the program that happened to be on at the moment was HD. In stores, I've seen all kinds of material being shown and at times, it wasn't HD at all. =A0 It's gotten better in the last couple years, but before that in many stores that I've seen it was pretty bad. But if you have an HDTV with and HD source, and a regular TV next to it, the difference is huge. Granted a material difference. I have no problem with your wanting your pretty pictures in highly defined resolution. You will pay for what your get. I begrudge you nothing in this regard. Remember the "Vast Wasteland"? It still exists. Millions of viewers lounge around every evening in front of the tube or son-of-tube. They scarcely take notice of what's on the screen because they know it's mostly drivel. ATSC/HD drivel is not materially superior to NTSC drivel. Lord help po' me. I read books! :-) Part of me wants to pitch the goddamn tube out the window. 'Tis the cost/benefit curve, as applied to the public at large, that you fail to comprehend. Possibly because you're just not interested in what effects others. You make these sweeping statements with out elaboration. You haven't exactly flooded the byte-waves with source-info your-own-self. The cost to the public at large? =A0 If you have 2 tv's and buy 2 ATSC tuners, you'd be out about $50. =A0 Is that so bad? Suggest you Google "ATSC tuners" re price and availability. And who wants an external box when they don't need one? When the local or state govt decides to buy open land or make a new park and your tax bill goes up that much for something you personally never will use, do you get all upset too? Depends on lots of things. And further, for the public at large, the fed govt is gonna get billions when they sell the bandwith previously used by NTSC. That sounds like a lot of money they can piss away instead of instead of taking it from taxes. They'll be cashing in on a public resource. It's an entirely different topic, but I damned well don't like what they're doing with our money. So, where exactly is this big cost/ benefit problem that I fail to comprehend. It's something you've chosen not to contemplate. You instead ask your buddy, the cable guy, who predicts that something very bad is going to happen and the changeover to ASTC is gonna turn to chaos, so you shouldn't do anything about your TV that needs replacement =A0 He's proably one of those cable guys we heard about who show up to install cable and can't figure out how to correctly hook the new digital box component video outputs up to the HDTV. Hey, it's OK to get abusive. It's obvious that you lack info about both my circumstances and my friend (who, 'tho retired, knows vastly more about the industry than either of us). Yeah, I tend to get that way when someone who dismisses readily available info from a wide variety of sources and obviously knows less than zero about HD, tries to tell me I'm some kind of mindless dummy that's bought into a bunch of hype. Let the record show that the "mindless dummy" phrase was of your own devise. I implied only gullibility and/or personal interest. The net is rife with both. They pump up the hype in preparation for shoving the unproven technology down the consumers throats. You seem to accept it all at face value. You are their "Perfect Consumer". Or perhaps an industry employee. Eh? What exactly is "unproven"? =A0 About a third of US homes now has an HDTV. More sourceless claims. Even if true, ATSC is still an unproven tech. in the homes of a majority of US folks. More than that, the relative utility of ATSC vs NTSC given costs of each is very much unproven. It's not enough to (correctly) say that it's a "much prettier picture". ATSC broadcasting has been up for years. Every TV set sold now has an ATSC tuner. =A0 Geez, I notice for all the facts and statistics I cite in an attempt to have a reasonable discussion, you counter with what? =A0 No facts. =A0 Just personal feelings, and the opinion of your buddy the cable guy, that HD/ATSC is unproven stuff, heading for calamity. =A0 Now thats what I call hype. Lordy Mercy! A conspiracy of one? Hype?? BTW, I'm not an industry empoyee, though I am an electrical engineer, so perhaps I know a little more about technology than you or your cable guy. And, as an EE, I'm sure you and your employer(s) reap no benefits whatsoever (direct or indirect) from the ATSC mandate. :-) Perhaps as an EE, you have some idea of what a mess they made of NTSC over the years? And you think it will truly be different with ATSC? That's it, I'm out of here. No further response will ensue. =A0=A0=A0=A0Puddin' "Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" =A0 -Friedrich Schiller
Relative to inflation, I think prices have been falling for many years.
And you are evidently less cynical than I, who haven't watched a regular prime-time show since Hill St. Blues, know of O'Reilly but have never / will never watch him or any of the shock-droids. Got nooooooooooo idea who Flava might be. Haven't watched a US presidential "address" since Jimmy Carter since I don't like to be lied to, etc etc.
Pert near describes some of what I see coming across my cable.
I'm finding numerous channels to be so obnoxious that I just won't tune 'em. Bravo, Comedy, et al.
TCM is the exception. It's still "civilized" and un-offensive.
I'm slowly giving up on the "entertainment" industry (including what they call "news") altogether.
3 CRT's? Don't drop one on your foot when you move in: you may never walk right again! :-)Cheers, Puddin'
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
History Channel, Discovery Channel, Learning Channel, Travel Channel makes up 99% of my viewing. Modern Marvels is my favorite show.
Mostly agree. There are a few OTA network shows I still watch, but the list gets shorter every year. I resent having to pay for a hundred garbage channels on Satt (shopping, sports, religion) to get the dozen or so I actually watch.
aem sends...
well i agree, were not intoi sports, but have to buy ESPN in basic tier.
although the shopping channels actually PAY for carriage, so they help keep other channels price down
I watch that last one a lot too.
BTW, they even covered an event that happened near here (this was on one of the "Modern Marvels: Engineering Disasters" shows, I forget which). The 1937 explosion at the New London Texas school, which was caused by natural gas. This is supposedly the reason they add odorant to gas.
I seldom watch any of the new shows (although I do watch "Smallville" some).
I agree with you there. I especially hate paying for TBN, a
24-hour-a-day commercial.
You are in search of substance, and, hopefully are finding some.
Do you find much of mass-media "news" to be severely biased? If so, to what extent do you find History to be biased? I cringe to think of the bias to be found in most history books.
I'll take another look at Discovery , Learning. Maybe even Travel ('tho I don't).
This is a US national problem, and indicative of cable/dish implicit collusion? Another reason I'm slowly giving up ...
Skoal, Puddin'
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!" -Friedrich Schiller
I honestly can't say I see much, if any, bias on the History Channel. Most seems very factual and straight.
If you don't travel, consider doing so. It will really open your eyes at how the rest of the world lives. Wish I was able to do it more and was able to do it earlier in life. I've only been to five other countries and enjoyed every minute of it.
I'd be willing to pay a little more per channel to just have the ones I'm interested in. The list would be short. It is not impossible with the technology available to offer an ala carte menu of stations.
I was over a friends one day and a movie came on that we had both seen. Every commercial break had *15* commercials (we counted). It was so ridiculous that we couldn't even follow a movie we had seen. I don't know hoe anyone could ever watch that channel without a PVR.
I have seen a few shows where they start wandering into Algore polar bears are falling into the ocean territory.
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