converting to LPG??

[Lp1331 1p1331]

Didn't the company get a detailed bill with the LD numbers and call times on it? If so, it shouldn't have been too hard to track down the problem without any fancy software. Larry

[mm]

I only heard this stuff second hand. I was a contractor and in addition, I think a lot of it had happened before I got there.

But I don't know why you assume this. There were plenty of telephone systems before there were computers that used operators, and the first electronic systems did no more than replace the operators. I don't think they kept track of which extension called out anymore than AT&T phone systems did when they first got dial phones.

Maybe it was installing a whole new phone system that was expensive and maybe they didn't do that just because of these phone calls.

[Oren]

A hard thread to follow, without at least a simple quote from the poster before you. Seriously.

[George]

Nothing unusual or earth shattering or something you would be unfamiliar with. I think if you examine your utility bills you will find what I described. For example we have natural gas and electricity at our house and both have tier pricing. If you don't use a lot you pay more for obvious reasons. The propane companies (at least the ones I am familiar with) do the same thing. If you only have say a 100lb bottle just for cooking you pay more per gallon. The evil mom & pop propane companies charge is reasonable. And since mega outfits are your friend the most expensive is Suburban.

[George]

Possibly no. It isn't unusual (especially on older systems) to have a plan for your phone switch that simply gives a bucket of LD minutes. If you want to know what is draining the bucket you need to run your own call accounting software.

[Stormin Mormon]

A couple more thoughts, to add to the mix. Propane burns a lot more clean. So, while the annual clean and check is essential for an oil furnace, a propane furnace can go several years between cleans. Not wise idea, I know, but it can. My last trailer, I was there four or five years, and the only thing that got done was to oil the blower one night when the berrings dried out and screamed for oil. The present trailer, (natural gas heat) the furnace needed annual oiling of the inducer fan.

The propane companies ask if this is for heating, or cooking. For heat, you get the larger tank. And a lower rate. Heat and cook are both done off the larger tank. As to distance off the road, you'd have to phone and ask.

Propane tanks are often stencilled with a brand. If you have a Burnwell tank, the guy from Graham isn't allowed to fill it.

[ransley]

I would do it, few places in the US have electricity as cheap as gas per BTU you recieve, and for cooking and your water heater the savings can be great, for me it meant saving maybe 30$ a month on just cooking and heating water. A new 94-96% gas furnace might save you 20-40% on heating.

[sligoNoSPAMjoe]

Check with your local suppliers, but LPG is almost always more expensive than oil.

[Stormin Mormon]

Furnace and stove: yes.

Refil: The tall tank about 3 foot diameter is 100 gals, and they fill it to 80 gals so it doesn't over pressurize when it gets hot. The short hotdog shaped tanks are 250 gals, and they fill to 200 gals.

My last trailer had two 100 gal tanks, and lasted a couple months.

LPG / propane furnace takes a lot less maintenance.

[Stormin Mormon]

Could be. When you're out of oil, you can go to town and buy a couple galons of kerosene or diesel, and pour into the tank. I've done that for friends. Propane, well, it may be possible to fit on a 20 pound gas grill bottle to get you by for a couple hours. With LPG / propane, you're wise to check the tank gage every week until you get a feel for the consumption rate.

[The Daring Dufas]

Most electronic business phone systems for many years have had something called the SMDR port where a serial printer or computer can be plugged in. "Station Message Detail Report" can be programmed to print out all numbers called by any particular extension of the phone system. If a device bypasses the phone system and goes directly to the phone line, the system wouldn't detect it. That's why I reccomend installing analog ports on a system for the various "phone home" devices at a business. The analog ports work for FAX and dialup modems too so you could know who or what was dialing a number.

TDD

[larry]

I was googling this yesterday, especially when there was a big drop then big jump per gal of propane (3.99 to 2.55 to

2.29 to 4.09- 20gal retail/mo) over the last heating season.

I use electric/propane/kerosene to heat small office in detached garage, using whichever has best btu/$ at the time. Time to find my Nick Pine post archive and build his solar collector and heated water storage. This energy thing isn't going to get better ;-)

Found this site:

Not a pretty picture for the propane supply business practices. There truly is no "shelf" price, better to call it bendova pricing. Info is east coast and current from real users. Might help you be prepared with your choice.

mm wrote:

[George]

Since propane is an oil derivative it follows the phoney crude oil "market".

[Tony]

Depends where you are and what local prices are. Where I am LPG (liquid propane gas) is only 9% cheaper than plain electric heat. LPG is much more expensive than a heat pump! Oil may be your least expensive choice. You may want to just get a 100 pound tank and a gas stove.

[mm]

All sounds good. Thanks a lot.

As to

I should have done that yesterday. Where did yesterday go? I have to look.

Very interesting. Maybe I won't be able to do anything about that but maybe I will, esepcially since you've forewarned me.

Thanks.

[Stormin Mormon]

The tank and stove provides a good compromise. Gas cook. cheaper oil for heat. And some heat for when the power is out.

[Stormin Mormon]

You may be allowed to buy the tank outright. In my case, it wasn't much of an issue cause there was good competition, and they were all about same price.