[entire post snipped]
Hey Professor! That was the hardest post to read that I can recall. I had
to read the 2nd paragraph, then the 1st, then the 4th, then the 3rd, and so
on. Very strange. And you're a professor!? Could you please learn how to
properly post. Usenet is a question and then answer type of discussion. And
we that read English read from top down. Thanks.
Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
I will only try to address one issue. Function. As you look at the
specs, you want to pay attention to two of them.
First it should be "Fully Glazed" That means the part of the drain you
don't see, the part where things get clogged, is fully glazed like the parts
you do see. If it does not say fully glazed, then inside that pipe there
are sections that are not fully glazed and have a consistency somewhat like
sand paper. Things that you don't want to see again slide on the glass like
finish (glazed) much better than on sand paper.
Next you want to look for a trap size (the trap is the part that is
hopefully fully glazed) is at a minimum 2 inches and larger is much better.
I would not buy less than 2 inches myself.
Between the two you get a slippery large opening to get rid of the
I'm in luck! Consumer Reports has a review of toilets online from Aug.
2005. They talk about some of the things I was interested in. Should
have gone there, first. With the comments from this newsgroup, and the
analyses on CR, I'm confident that I'll have a reliable throne
installed by Monday.
Anyway, it looks like the Eljer Titan is going to deserve some
investigation. It's not easy to test a toilet in the showroom!
If you want to buy Com hieght good idea many of my clients have . If
you buy 6ltr get one that as some one else said fully glazed 2 inch no
smaller opening. 2 button toilets are good but you can save money and
hold the lever till the water in the bowl goe,s down, you then have
used the full 6 ltrs. Nost people that tell me they will never buy
another 6 just don,t know how to flush it properly. You have to hold
the handle till the water starts to go down in the bowl it has then
used the full tank not half as it would if you flick and walk
away.Crane Kohler American Standerd all very good. Good Luck
No other source of information that I could find has tested as many
toilets as CR did. No other source did as detailed a test. CR tested
Crane, Eljer, Kohler, Gerber, American Standard, Toto, Mansfield,
Niagara, Jacuzzi, Briggs and Sterling. That's a bigger sample set than
is available locally. I'm satisfied with that.
Unfortunately, testing a single model in a large brand is totally
inadequate. There are too many differences within the brands.
The CWWA site cited earlier has a substantially larger database, and should
make a better basis for shopping. Once you weed out the low performers,
shop elsewhere to find info on specific models. I found the mfgrs' web
sites to be informative as well, and the plumber's and customers'
perspectives at www.terrylove.com invaluable.
From Terry Love's site:
Good flushing toilet.
Could use a little better bowl wash, but better than some others.
Noise level consistent with other 3" flush valve toilets.
An industry standard for performance with what some consider the
best flush performance. Has perhaps the most thorough flush, leaving
nothing in the bowl.
Fairly compact at 28" in length for the elongated version and
26-1/2" for the regular bowl.
Easy to assembly with common tools. If you have pliers and a flat
blade screwdriver, you're in business.
I have to second the "compact" and "easy to assembl[e]" comments. One of my
bathrooms is small, and I wasn't sure if an elongated bowl would fit. Turns
out that the Drake was less than an inch longer from the wall overall than
my old round-bowl toilet. The tank is more compact, and it fits in the
"Perpetually hawk"?!? Let's see...
I found it when I was shopping for toilets about 2-3 years ago. I found
it valuable in my search.
I have mentioned it a couple times before, always in response to
someone's query for info.
For the record, I don't know the guy and have never bought anything from
him, and have NEVER recommended anyone buy anything from him.
Unprofessional?!? Dunno how you came to that...
He's a plumbing contractor, and states that very clearly on his site.
He's licensed, bonded, & insured, and has no complaints listed on the state
of WA licensing or the BBB sites.
He lists references to other plumbers on the web.
More prominent than the ratings on the "toilet reports" page is an
alphabetical list of all major toilet mfgrs and their web links, as well as
a number of other useful links.
He clearly explains the basis of his subjective and objective (e.g., MaP
Biased? Probably -- no, DEFINITELY true! He is very apparently biased
toward toilets that work.
Here your own bias is showing. There are several negative comments in the
customer reviews of the Toto Drake, Ultramax, and Aquia. He has good
comments and no negatives on the Gerber Ultraflush and Caroma Caravell.
There is a combination of objectivity and subjectivity on the site.
Hmmm... I would be very wary of a vendor that did NOT sell the products he
He sells a multitude of brands and models. Since it is unlikely that anyone
will order from him via the web unless they live between Bothell and
Bellevue, WA, and since he provided the reviews to ANYONE -- not just
[potential] customers, there is NO conflict of interest here. To the
contrary, it is provided as an educated, expert opinion from someone who
sells and services a wide variety of toilets.
There is nothing phony or shillish about this one, though. Besides, you can
take his advice or leave it -- no pressure!
Consumer Reports also has an increasing trend toward evaluations that are
less scientific and more error-prone. This trend is accompanied by a trend
toward marketing tactics that approach the "sleaze" they decry in other
companies. CR is a good organization, but they are not perfect, infallible,
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:28:17 -0700, "John Weiss"
<jrweiss98155nospamatnospamcomcastdotnospamnet> wrote:>CR is a good organization, but they are not perfect, infallible,
Isn't it funny how you are the only one who suggested they were. Their
continuing saving grace is how their detractors can never name any
widely-available source of information that comes close to their good
track record. They are simply the best source of consumer information
that is available to the general public. Nobody else goes to such
detail. Nobody else refuses all advertisements from the companies
whose products are being evaluated. Nobody else covers such a wide
range of consumer products.
You stick to supporting your shill site. Any company who needs that
kind of support isn't worth considering for my purchases. There will
always be a ready supply of stupid customers who will fall for it, but
there are plenty of intelligent consumers who can immediately see the
lack of value in Mr. Love's recommendations.
Oops! I thought Tim was just the latest identity change for one of the
folks who previously participated in this discussion, but when I
Googled him, I see that he has spewed his bile all over usenet for
My fault. I should have ignored him. -Chris
Thanks for the insight, BetsyB. Situations like what you describe is
exactly what I am trying to prepare for. I may have the money now for
a taller toilet, but I probably won't have the money after I retire
and go on a fixed income (in a couple of decades).
Trying to 'make hay while the sun shines'.
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