Chemistry help for cleaning the wife's pots & pans with pool acid (2023 Update)

[Tekkie®]

dadiOH posted for all of us...

IDK I think California outlaws all chemicals except the injectable ones...

[Tekkie®]

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...

Look under 'strengthening your forearm'

[Doug Miller]

"Danny D." wrote in news:olkirv$uag$ [e-mail]:

They are.

Nope, but it won't eat your pans, either.

Probably nowhere. Try washing soda instead. You should be able to find it on the laundry aisle of your local supermarket -- box of Arm & Hammer brand looks pretty much like the A&H baking soda box except a lot bigger. Note: washing soda will leave a dark gray layer on your aluminum pans, but that's a heck of a lot better than eating the metal away.

What in the world ever possessed you to use muriatic acid to clean your cookware, anyway? That stuff's for cleaning concrete and porcelain, not metal.

[Tekkie®]

Oren posted for all of us...

He wanted a carbon remover.

[Muggles]

Frank... I have a chemistry question related to detergent/soap suds and oil/grease.

I've noticed that many soaps will bubble and lather up nicely but when it hits the oil or grease that the lather and bubbles disappear. Also, if oil or grease is present that soap doesn't want to bubble up.

The reason I ask is I see the same thing happen when I use liquid bath soap and bath oil. If I haven't used any bath oil in the tub, the liquid bath soap will lather and bubble up nicely, but if I used bath oil before using the soap, the soap won't lather up at all.

Is the oil breaking down the bath soap or vice versa? What causes the soap to not lather up if oil is present in the water?

[gfretwell]

Soap and oil form an emulsion. That is not like either of them but it does make the oil more mobile so it will go down the train easier.

[Muggles]

OK I understand what you're saying.

So, why doesn't the soap bubble/lather up when oil is present in the water? I thought the soap lather was supposed to break down the oil, but it seems to be the other way around.

If I have soap bubbles in the water, they will totally disappear if I add bath oil to the water.

I'm just curious as to what is chemically happening ... why does the oil prevent the soap from foaming up?

[gfretwell]

It isn't soap anymore it is a soap/oil emulsion and the soap will not support the bubbles. You see the same thing in dish water once oil builds up it to the point that it has overwhelmed the soap (or detergent). It is actually a good thing because the oil is trapped in that emulsion, the object of the exercise. If there is sufficient soap in the water, it will carry that oil down the drain and off to the sewer plant. You see it work the opposite way if there is an oil slick on the water around your boat and you squirt some detergent in the water. The oil is still there but the slick is gone. (a trick people do to avoid getting busted by the enviro cops)

[Muggles]

Thanks for the explanation!

[Frank]

Did not see this part of the thread until now and explanation is correct.

A soap is the carboxylate salt of a fatty acid and detergents are the same except they are sulfonate salts of long chain fatty type materials. The salt end of the molecule is attracted to water and the fatty end to the oil. Emulsion is a droplet of oil surrounded by the soap suspended in the water. There are ways to break emulsions like freezing, making acidic or salting out. A lot of products are sold as emulsions which is why you should not freeze things like paints as you might break the emulsion and ruin them.

Soaps do not function as well in hard water as the calcium ion causes precipitation. Detergents can still work in hard water.

[Muggles]

Thanks! I understand what you just told me.

What I'm not sure is, what causes the soap to not foam up in the presence of oil?

[seamuswarren]

I seem to get good results using Nigella Lawton’s Tuscan method.