Cash4Clunkers - see a Corvette die

[HeyBub]

Sniff...

Coming soon: Healthcare for grandma...

[Noahbuddy]

"HeyBub" wrote in news:FdadnV0olMdlpwzXnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

...out of the mouth of an ignorant screamer at town hall meetings. Rumors were started by the gutter-trash former gov. of Alaska.

[HeyBub]

There's some truth to some of what you say. You've got to admit, however, it's effective.

Me? I'm not worried about grandma getting unplugged; I'm worried about whether she'll get plugged up in the first place.

[windcrest]

Yes you have to read between the lines with the govt. healt care. He did say gradma would not get unplugged, but notice that he omitted completely, nor did the press ask, if she would get high-tech life support in the first place. So he was speaking the truth, but probably by omission.

[Eric in North TX]

If I was Grandma I wouldn't want to be plugged in in the first place. Why lay here running up the national debt in life support when you could move on to a better place? I have no resuscitation orders filed with both local hospitals.

[aemeijers]

Guess what? IMHO, most grandmas (and grandpas) would prefer to NOT get plugged up in the first place, once they are past a certain point on the decay curve. It should be their decision, of course, not the family's and for damn sure not the doctor's. But of the older relatives and friends I have discussed this with (now that am going gray), pretty much all of them said that once they are not aware of their surroundings, they would just as soon not hang around. They all routinely insist on DNR orders when they go into the hospital. Said orders apply if their gatekeeper physician decides that recovery to a functional self-sufficient state is unlikely. Keep them clean, keep them out of pain, but otherwise let nature take its course.

-- aem sends....

[SteveB]

They're letting the union thugs scream at town meetings now?

[norminn]

Grandma and grandpa have been offered less than "high-tech" life support for a long, long time. They are very likely to have diapers slapped on them if they can't get to a bathroom unaided. Medicare reimbursed nursing homes based on a certain number of hours per patient...that may have changed. Medicare used to allow 3.something hours of nursing care per day per patient. There was no time-sheet, and if Joe and Bill were ill enough to require 6 hours of nursing care, then someone was shorted. I had nursing home patients who required almost continual care.

I once asked a nurse-aid not to use so many underpads for an incontinent patient....her reply was "Medicare pays for them". That was probably 30 years ago and reimbursement was $1 each.

Rental of durable medical equipment and oxygen machines is a racket that is horribly abused.

I read a story in the newspaper not long ago about a 78-year-old waiting for a heart transplant. Know an indiviual, long-term heavy drinker, who is waiting for a liver transplant, and is probably drawing disability and Medicare coverage.

"High tech" has medical practice at the brink of insanity and insolvency. I would wager a bet that rehab rates would increase and costs drop dramatically if nursing homes hired more nurses and nurse aides. I would vote for mandatory national service for all citizens if it included serving in such work.

Basic medical and surgical covereage under a national plan would benefit all of us. If folks want blue pills, transplants, fertility treatment, let them buy luxurious plans as they can afford them. There should also be psychiatric coverage at least for children that includes treatment for substance abuse.

[SteveB]

Unless, of course, Medicare or Medicaid is footing the bill, then the evil doctor will remove one body part at a time to stuff his pockets. Or so Barry sez ..........

[Frank]

Plugging or unplugging, I don't want the decision made by the Chicago mob.

[Jim Yanik]

Frank wrote in news:h6sd38$59t$ [e-mail]:

or any government. at least with private insurance companies and hospitals,you can negotiate with them,and sue them. You can't do either with the government.(practically speaking)

You'd be long dead by the time the case got to court.

BTW,the whole "death panel" thing is about some gov't committee deciding whether one gets expensive treatments,probably using actuarial tables. Get too old *or in poor shape*,and the unknown gov't committee says NO to further treatments,only allowing(paying for) mediation of pain and suffering.

Oh,and Obama himself has said that he expects it to take 10-15 yrs to drive out private health insurers,to reach his goal of "single payer".So this talk of "public option" coverage is merely a diversion.

[Jim Yanik]

"SteveB" wrote in news:0ui8m6- [e-mail]:

they're too busy outside... blocking,pushing,and beating up opponents.

Union,ACORN,and New Black Panthers. And we already know Obama's Justice Dept. will not prosecute them.

all the "progressives" are the "useful idiots" of modern times. They've been SUCKERED.

[norminn]

clipped

Better they than the Republican Party. In fact, I believe I will add that to my living will :o)

[Frank]

Exactly.

Here's a situation I am familiar with in the UK and am one of the petition signers:

Look at the acronym NICE (National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence) - the name of the government death squad.

With Obamacare, this is where US is heading.

[Oren]

A friend has been know to say: "If I'm on life support, don't unplug me. That way the Pension checks keep coming in."

[Kurt Ullman]

It is his/her job to do what is best for you medically. Period. Exclamation point. If that is help you shuffle off this mortal coil, then they should be able to give you their best available advice. That sometimes may include stopping the artifical and letting nature take its course. About the only part of the plan I can get into without reservation is that the counselling should be done. Actually BEFORE you are in an extremis situation.

[HeyBub]

The only problem with the counseling is that it is done by the government and the government has an interest in the outcome. It is the appearance (and the temptation) to do evil that's troublesome.

The government should AT LEAST offer counseling by the institution's chaplin as a choice.

[Jim Yanik]

Frank wrote in news:h6shai$p9f$ [e-mail]:

it's amazing how much the "progressives" are in denial. they simply cannot or refuse to see this happening here.

[Jim Yanik]

Kurt Ullman wrote in news: [e-mail]:

but who PAYS for whatever treatment the doc decides? THAT is where the "death panels" step in. No doc is going to sell their services at a loss or give them away for free. Nor should they be forced to. The result would be doctors leaving the practice,and fewer new doctors entering practice;less service and longer waits. This is evident in other countries.

Advice only goes so far,then treatment (or denial of treatment)is necessary.

What about accidents?

[Kurt Ullman]

Paid for by the government not being done by the government. Using your example, pretty much every time the doc suggests ANYTHING for either MCare or MCaid it is suspect.

The chaplain understands the medical aspects and various risk reward ratios involved, especially in most end of life discussions. I don't think so!