Carpet problems, please help

[a_008]

We just moved into a new house in end of November with berber carpet in the family room, stairs and master bedroom. The carpet in the family does not seem to align properly. We measured the width of the room to confirm it is in perfect rectangular shape. Unfortunately the carpet installer disagree with us, they said the tufting lines are bowed in one area. I took pictures at all four sides of the carpet and I think the entire carpet is tilted (see below links). The response from the builder can be found at the end of the message. Can someone tell me if the carpet installer is correct?

In additional, we noticed some unexplained damage spots in our carpet (see below links). At first the damaged spots were found in the stairs to the master bedroom and basement and the carpet installer fixed the one found in the stair to master bedroom a few weeks ago, but more new damaged spots are found recently and I noticed at least one in the masterbedroom and two in the family room, the basement stairs now looks extremely bad. The damage spots have harden surface and it feel like it is burnt by some glue or chemical but we never spill anything on the carpet and we use vacuum the carpet once per week. Can someone explain what can cause these? Is the carpet defective? Thanks

------------------------- Response from the builder

------------------------- This letter is in response to your recent e-mails regarding your berber carpet. Your claim is that the carpet is not aligned properly.

I have inquired with RRRRR Floor Store on your behalf and asked them to send a technician to your home to investigate this claim. BBBB BBBBBB (the owner of Regency) inspected your carpet and confirmed that the installation is correct. BBBB explained that the pattern in the carpet is such that 2 "lines" should run at 45 degree angles to the wall. He inspected the carpet and confirmed that this is the case at your home.

The issue you are concerned with is the tufting lines. BBBB stated that the tufting lines are bowed in one area of your carpet and never run perfectly straight in any carpet due to the nature of the manufacturing method. Tufting lines are often bowed; however, lining up the pattern in the carpet with the walls correctly is the goal of the carpet installer. The picture you sent, as well as Regency's written report both indicate that the pattern lines up correctly.

Therefore, there is no further action required on this issue. If you have any further questions regarding warranty standards, please do not hesitate to contact us.

[tbasc]

Have you spoiken to the carpet manufacturer?

TB

[Joseph Meehan]

I was about to suggest you were crazy but after looking at the photos you may have some issues.

However I suggest a couple of thoughts. It would appear the carpet people would have had to work extra hard to put the carpet in as it appears. Why would they do that?

You say you measure "the length and with to conform it is in perfect rectangular shape" That only confirms it is a parallelogram. To versify it is square you need to measure both diagonals and assure they are exactly equal. You also may face the problem that the walls may not be perfectly straight. It is a very unusual home that has everything perfect.

Carpet is a stretchable product. It may have been stretched unevenly before or during installation.

[Kyle Boatright]

Your carpet has a problem with bow and skew, which is the industry term. Since we don't know who manufactured your carpet, there is no telling what their acceptable limit is for bow and skew (yours appears to be skewed), but believe me, there is a tolerance, and your carpet almost certainly exceeds it. Take a tape measure and measure the amount of skew in the carpet. In general, this is measured as a certain number of inches per 12', so if you can find a tufting line that is 12' long and disappears under the molding after 12', measure how far away from the wall it is at the furtherest point. Then write a letter to the dealer and tell them you have a bow and skew problem of 6" (or whatever) per 12', and your expectations (do you want it replaced, do you want an allowance - figure out what you want). A reputable dealer should take care of the problem. If the dealer doesn't satisfy you, contact the manufacturer. Before you contact the manufacturer, you'll need some information about the carpet, such as style number, color number, and the roll number your carpet came from. You'll probably need to get this information from the dealer.

I have no idea what your damage spots are caused by. Could be a solvent or something. That kind of thing must be identified and pointed out right after the installer finishes, because once you use the house/carpet, it become a he said/she said kind of thing where there is no way to prove that the damage wasn't something you did.

[a_008]

Hi,

I took two new pics this morning for the two damage spots in the master bedroom.

for original size =>

I did pointed out at least one damage spot in the stairs and they fixed it. The problem is I discovered more and more new spots lately. They seem to come out from no where! All I can say is no solvent is involved because I don't have any due to my son's allergy problem. Are there any other explaination for these? The last pic (3229) looks like nylon is melted. Any manufacturing defect that can cause this type of problem?

I only spoke to the builder and carpet installer. I tried to contact the manaufacturer but all the only product description I have is "GALLANT GUEST (or Quest) - 51630 color 00100 Heavenly Beige". Thanks

[willshak]

On 1/8/2005 10:23 AM US(ET), a [e-mail] took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

Unless an electrician or plumber did some work after the carpet was installed and laid something down that was hot enough to melt the fibers, these look like something that might have been done during the manufacturing of the carpet. It might not have been noticed during the manufacturing, or it was noticed and the manufacturer sold it as 'Seconds' at a reduced price. Perhaps they installed 'Seconds' in your house?

[Kyle Boatright]

The dealer should be able to provide you with the appropriate information. If the dealer is uncooperative, I'd talk with the better business bureau. Again, the damaged spots will be the subject of argument, and you'll have a tough time proving who caused them. The skew problem is definitely something that you should be able to have corrected.

[a_008]

Bill,

What I really don't understand is how can these spots show up only recently? Did I missed them all at the beginning? I caught one damaged spot right after possession and the carpet installer fixed that. Now there are almost a dozen of these spots. I don't believe the problem is caused by electricians or plumbers because the spots are scattered everywhere, most of them are on the stairs but there are a few in masterbedroom and family room as well. I thought about manufacturing defect too but is it possible a manufacturing defect show up a few weeks after installation? I want to learn more before I talk to the carpet installer again.

Thanks

[Chuck B.]

Just a thought, The installers use an iron to fuse the carpet to the tape that holds two pieces together.Maybe they put the iron down on the carpet and melted it.

[willshak]

On 1/8/2005 12:28 PM US(ET), a [e-mail] took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

I don't know about you, but I don't inspect things inch by inch when I first look into a room. Unless a defect jumps out and hits me in the face, I usually just scan the room for size, layout, color, etc. I think that once you saw that off-square carpeting, you started looking at the carpet a little more carefully, thereby finding the other defects, which you had overlooked before. If you didn't cause those melted carpet spots, then someone before you did. That leaves someone working on the house, the carpet installer, or the manufacturer. I had my house built by a general contractor that I actually worked for as a carpenter on a part-time basis (I had another full-time job with a lot of weekdays off). I was even involved in the building of my house and was being paid by the contractor. After moving in, there were some things that I wasn't involved in, that showed up later, like some sloppy plaster work on the drywall, gaps in moulding, a lump in the LR floor due to a severe crown in the joist, etc.

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, If the house is brand new, this issue should've been addressed before moving in at final completition inspection of the house. I am not a carpet expert but it does not seem right. Have had 5 houses built over the years, never came across carpet installed like this. Tony

[CWatters]

The nearest edge to the camera appears to be parallel with the tiles (in

773). If the tiles are "square" with the walls then the carpet would appear to have a skew problem.

This site details what one carpet manufacturer considers acceptable (eg a certain amount of bow and skew is to be expected). Try contacting the manufacturer and ask for their spec...

Quote: Stop installation and contact mill if the following tolerances have been exceeded:

1) If bowing is greater than 1 inch in 12 foot width or 1 inch in 12 foot length. 2) If skew or squareness of pattern is greater than 1 1/2 inches in 12 foot width. 3) If pattern elongation is more than an average of 3 inches in 24 foot length.

End Quote:

There are diagrams on that page to explain

[a_008]

I talked to the builder today, they said the carpet installer insists that the pattern is two lines running at 45 degrees to the wall. There is nothing they can do about the vertical "tufted lines". I asked and am awaiting for manufacturer information. In the meantime, can someone in the carpet industry tell me if the carpet installer is correct? thanks