No, not what I said, It is done often for use, but not for filling tanks. What I did was is that the oxygen coming off of the LOX is not of sufficient pressure to fill a compressed tank, you need mechanical pumps to assist. There are small tanks that can be filled with LOX from big tanks and that is allowed for local use or portables. You are confusing two different forms of O2 and the equipment used for them.
UAB hospital has several hospitals next door. The VA, the
I doubt they have a central tank to go that distance, but I've not seen it. Post photos or drawings of the layout when you get them.
I'll see what I can find out from some of the guys who work there. If I take pictures, the UAB police may tackle me as a terrorism suspect. I may drive by with my camera this week.
Even the large tanks (5-foot tall) are used in homes?
So what you're saying is that welding tanks are probably safer - because they're not as exposed to such nasty conditions and situations as the home-use medical tanks are? And welding tanks are more likely to be returned with some positive pressure - as opposed to home-use medical tanks as you have just described?
So go further and tell us if welding tanks are, or are not, evacuated prior to being refilled.
So how is it known that these gasses meet this 99.99% spec?
Are they tested?
Or are they compressed with equipment that is known to NOT inject contaminents during pressurization?
Much of what is speculated here is not with the "purity" of the source gas, or the compentency of the compression equipment to maintain that purity as a tank is being pressurized, but with what *might* happen with these tanks when in the hands of end-users as they reach their empty state prior to being returned to be reused.
Seems that some people here are hung up on that point, and we are all speculating as to just what the gas retailer does behind the scenes with these returned tanks prior to refilling them.
Yes. sometimes. That is an "H" tank. Most home uses is smaller "D" tanks. D and E tanks are generally used as portables or for emergency backup if a concentrator fails or if there is a power failure.
Show me where I said industrial tanks are not exposed to nasty conditions.
I worked with medical, not industrial so I don't know the answer, nor do I care. Medical oxygen comes with paperwork. That makes it different and the only way it can be used for a patient. Think what you want, but unless it is medical grade, no oxygen supplier is going to give a tank to a patient.
I know how a medical tank was handled. I don't know anything abut a welding tank. The oxygen may be pure going in, but I don't know what was in the tank beforehand.
I'm not stuck on decades information, my son owns a medical supply company that supplies oxygen. I worked part time for him filling tanks and delivering LOX. We followed the regulations on medical oxygen. You are free to breath whatever you like though.
A fellow I know works on X-ray equipment and said the 50 cent bolt from HD or Lowe's costs $25 if it's for one of his X-ray machines. The reason being a stack of paperwork required for each little part. Is it an exaggeration? I don't know but I know someone who does and I may have to drop by and ask him.
The gas suppliers are not about to fill 2,000 PSI+ of pure O2 on top of some amount of unknown gas in the welding tank, that would be dangerous for them.
You follow your insurance / liability regulations, which do not in any way relate to the actual safety of using the "welding" O2 vs. "medical" O2, and have not been updated in decades.
The same equipment is used to fill all "grades" of cylinders.
The gas suppliers are not about to fill 2,000 PSI+ of pure O2 on top of some amount of mystery gas in the "welding" cylinder, especially since those "welding" cylinders are typically used in conjunction with a fuel gas. Putting pure O2 on top of some inadvertently transfilled Acetylene, propylene, propane, etc. would not be a healthy thing for the workers at the gas plant.
While that sounds logical, just saying it is not going to satisfy others unless more concrete proof is posted to show that the average compressed gas retailer or supplier performs the same processes and proceedures on all types of returned cylinders (evacuation, internal cleaning, etc) prior to refilling.
But I still submit that many of their arguments as to just how these tanks can become contaminated in the first place is implausible.
So you are speculating that the average compressed-gas retailer or supplier does not perform the same steps to evacuate / clean / what-ever / a welding tank that he (or you) does with a medical tank.
So you have a vested interest to maintain the impression that the average citizen shouldn't or can't use less expensive welding oxygen tanks in place of "medical" certified tanks for breathing or as a respiratory aid.
Amazing: All those posts, guesses and "sound good" types mostly, for a question that's so easily answered with a search engine that it's actually pathetic. This is precsely why groups like this have such low crediblity and high drift rates.
I'm not speculalting; you are. I said I did not know but you are trying to twist that. . Please don't lower yourself that way; it is not very becoming. .
I have a vested interest in supplying proper care for patients. I'm not maintaining any impression, I'm dealing with facts. If it does not have that piece of paper, it is not medical oxygen. By supplying anything else, a supplier can be sued, can lose accreditation. I have a vested interest in complying with regulations. Use what you want, but you won't get it from me. Nor will your insurance company pay for it if not in compliance.
I know what is in medical oxygen and can trace the source. Until you can do the same with welding oxygen, it is now allowed for patient use, now matter how much you say it is the same. FWIW, the actual cost of oxygen has little bearing on the cost of supplying it to a patient at home. It has no bearing on how much a supplier is paid by Medicare or insurance,as that is a fixed amount. They give the supplier $XX per month to cover the oxygen and all associated supplies and costs. Some patient se 2X or 3X of others, butt he amount paid is the same. If we could supply welding O2, it would be more profitable, not less.
I don't know if that is exactly the cost, but it sure is going to be higher. Anything needing certification or to meet military specs is higher. In the McMaster catalog a 1/4-20 stainless bolt can be 14¢ to meet ASTM specs and becomes 94¢ to meet a MIL spec.
Actually all that is needed is to know that the FDA and other agencies require certain additional tests to be performed and paperwork filled out before something can be called medical oxygen. Under these laws you cannot knowingly sell non-medical Oxygen for medical purposes and the insurance company sure as heck won't pay for it. If the question is can someone go to the local Ox-shop, tell the person they want welding oxygen, take it home and use it for medical, yeah. Just like you can use medications for off-label uses, but you take on extra risks by doing that.
The chief extra risk is that someone will claim that the welding O2 will kill you for some nebulous reason. I guess the medial O2 atoms are different from the welding O2 atoms.
I've never stated either why what I think is done to returned welding tanks prior to getting refilled.
The worst case situation is to assume that no special treatment is done to them. They are simply connected to a compressor and they are re-charged with O2, and probably using the same equipment, the same valves and lines and the same source of O2 that are used to fill all O2 tanks that are sold or rented at that site, which could be for welding, medical, or aviation use.
I said several times that you are proceeding from a point of view that the handling and processing of returned welding tanks IS different from that of medical tanks.
Let me ask you this:
If, hypothetically speaking, a compressed-gas supplier handled and processed ALL returned O2 cylinders the same way (both welding and medical cylinders) - which is to say that they are always cleaned, evaculated, etc, according to medical-grade specifications, then what would be your argument that an end-user shouldn't purchase a tank of "welding grade" O2 for their own medical or veterinary purposes from that supplier?
I agree that selling a tank of welding O2 to someone as a medical-grade tank of O2 (and charging medical-grade prices) is wrong and probably violates all sorts of laws and insurance policies.
But we are not talking specifically about that situation (product fraud).
If I buy welding O2 specifically for medical purposes, I agree that I am taking some sort of risk that I have no recourse or remedy for should the tank contain some harmful impurity. But I'm not convinced that a medical tank has a lower probability of containing a harmful impurity compared to a welding tank. The difference is that when I pay more for a medical tank, I am in effect buying an insurance policy that allows me to seek financial compensation. Perhaps I see no value in that additional cost if the odds of any tank (welding or medical) containing a harmful impurity are extremely low.
Is it really the case that you are taking on extra risk?
Or is it more the case that you can seek financial compensation if you purchase the medical-labelled product, because the extra cost you shelled out for was essentially an insurance policy - not a garantee or a certainty of getting a better product. ?
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