Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

[Steve Barker]

it's the same.

[HeyBub]

Large scale O2 generation involves cooling air to liquify it, then pulling off the components: Oxygen, Nitrogen, CO2, Argon, etc.

You CAN get Oxygen by electrolysis of water (plus Hydrogen), but the energy expenditure is horrendous.

Certainly O2 generators can be powered by chemical means; the Oxygen masks on airliners rely on chemical release of O2 by the burning of chlorates or perchlorates.

All that said, you can get O2 generators for small applications (bedside, veterinary, etc.) use, up to, and including, institutional generation, say, for hospitals.

To answer your question directly: Bottled O2 is far cheaper than the alternatives.

[Jim Elbrecht]

Though real popular with folks who melt glass with smallish torches- a

20pound LP tank and an O2 concentrator is a real popular setup.

Went to find a link for details and found this site-

I guess you can get one for large torches now-- advertised up to

20psi & 15LPM. [and up to $3500]

I noticed my m-i-l has an attachment on her [medical] O2 that lets her fill a small tank. I don't know what the pressure is-- and I also see that she still rents the big tanks, so it can't be too efficient.

Jim

[Doug Miller]

Ummm..... no, it's not. Read the other responses in this thread from people who actually know the difference.

[AZ Nomad]

no it isn't

[Jay Hanig]

*That* was a great article. The writer has great credibility to my mind, as I am a registered nurse, former scuba instructor, and former commercial pilot. I thought I knew a lot about oxygen. It turns out I wasn't as well informed as I had assumed.

You guys really need to read this if you're interested in compressed oxygen in any form.

Jay

[Harry K]

One must differentiate between the "oxygen" tanks (that contain pure oxygen) and the tanks used in the breathing apparatuses - those contain just compressed air with the usual nitrogen, co2, etc. still in it. The 'grab a tank off the back of a truck" implies tanks for the SCBAs - air, not oxygen.

Harry K

[dpb]

...

...

The bottom line is how confident do you want to be that what comes out of that refilled tank is, indeed, fit for breathing purposes and hasn't been contaminated since that point?

The scenario in the posting link later of a single large bottle refilling known smaller ones is reasonably well controlled; just taking the next random welding bottle returned from who knows where...errr, not so much. As someone else pointed out, you don't know what was done with those bottles previously nor what has been done since w/o the certification--that's the role it plays.

As for cost; it's a lot like the "N-stamp" nuclear-grade components--many of them are, in fact, identical to their non-graded cousins but they've been through the qualifications to prove their pedigree; the poor red-headed stepchild _may_ be just as good but doesn't have the papers to prove it.

[Frank]

The concentrators work by reverse osmosis. You can travel with them and use rechargeable batteries. If you are home, immobile, the medical supplier will often give you liquid and tubing is strung around the house. For short trips of a few hours, you can take liquid. You hire a supplier and it is up to him to satisfy all your requirements, tank, liquid or concentrator.

[gfretwell]

If it is labeled USP, it has to be medical grade or someone will be sued. BTW if you go in the back of a hospital you will see "welding" bottles hooked up to their system. It is more expensive to have 2 types of oxygen at the welding store than to just have one. They have to watch contaminants, just for safety. In the presence of pure oxygen, lots of things you think are pretty safe, become explosive. Try some steel wool.

[Jim Yanik]

Some Guy wrote in news: [e-mail]:

it's "way less" because for a given volume of gas,you get only ONE element;oxygen,while "air" also gives you nitrogen,argon,helium,krypton,xenon. Not that they have any benefit,but it's "more" than what you get with pure O2. ;-)

[Ed Pawlowski]

wrote

Not only have I looked at the back of the hospital, I've hooked up the bottles. I've also filled thousands of bottles for medical use. Every one has a tag with the purity listed and usually a traceability batch number. Oxygen is oxygen, but unless it has proper certification, it is not for medical use.

The content may be the same, but the paperwork is not. Without the proper paperwork, it is not medical grade.

[jeff_wisnia]

Fine steel wool will burn pretty darn well in air too.

About 25 years ago one of my toddlers managed to touch some fine steel wool across the terminals of a 9 volt "transistor radio" battery which set the steel wool ablaze. The kid wasn't harmed, but I had to replace a kitchen floor vinyl tile.

Jeff

[gfretwell]

... even if they come out of the same batch of bottles.

I guarantee you that if you find contamination in a bottle marked USP you have an actionable case. I agree the smaller bottles may be filled on site and do not carry the USP label so you get what you get. You put your finger on it, if you want them to write all the tracking numbers on a certification sheet, they will charge you more but that is for the lawyers, not the patients. The gas is the same.

[Some Guy]

The question was not if bottled O2 is cheaper than the alternatives.

The question was - are all forms or labels of bottled O2 essentially equivalent.

[Some Guy]

I presume that the first time that any brand-new O2 bottle is filled with it's first batch of O2, that it has been cleaned and vacuum evacuated first.

After that point, unless the air pressure in that tank ever falls below ambient atmospheric pressure, it's hard to see how anything other than pure O2 could ever re-enter it - even if it was ever connected to a manifold system where other bottles of similarly-clean O2 are also connected.

I understand that I can buy, or rent, oxy-acetelene tanks. If I buy, I'm not sure if I can have my bought-tank re-filled and returned to me, or if I simply exchange it for filled (but used) tank.

If I buy a brand new tank, and if I keep refilling that same tank when I need more, then I am removing the uncertainty of what could have been in the tank before it was filled.

And when it comes to refilling returned tanks, is it normal practice to at least let the tank fully depressurize itself before it's refilled? Wouldn't that dillute any potential non-oxygen gas or even particulate contaminent that it *may* have once the tank has been refilled with known-pure O2?

[Some Guy]

How exactly could something get into the tank in the first place?

If it's connected to a manifold system, then yes, the gas from a higher-pressure tank could flow into it. But doesn't that higher-pressure tank already contain known-pure O2?

If it's never connected to a manifold system or to another tank, then how exactly could something get into it? Deliberate tampering?

[Some Guy]

Do compressed air suppliers have different compressors for filling different O2 bottles from their bulk LOX source supply?

Hasn't it already been mentioned that even welding O2 gas needs to be just as clean as medical-grade O2?

I'm not convinced that there are any such tests.

Paperwork and barcode scanning? Yes, sure. I can see that. But unless someone posts something indicating that such "testing" is done, then I think it's pure speculation that there is this testing step.

Testing is the same as certification. So what are these additional processing steps beyond testing?

Do you work at a compressed air supply company?

[Steve Barker]

they can and do. Most Midas muffler shops make (concentrate) their own o2 for the oxy/acy setup.

[Steve Barker]

i read the responses. It's the same.