Can I use a dropcord in the pool?

[Floyd L. Davidson]

I'm sure you think so, but it just isn't true.

[Floyd L. Davidson]

I just gave you the answer. You don't understand it.

Each of your mistatements is funnier though!

If what you've been saying is not what you think, then why are you repeatedly saying it? We do have clue here about what you think, because you keep telling us what it is. How could anyone miss?

The difficulty is getting you to understand the topic.

Things like bringing up "path of least resistance", and then claiming that a path with many megohms of resistance is significant. It's not hard to see what you think, and to realize that you just do not understand the example before you.

Didn't you ever see power company linemen working on hot wires in the rain? Think about it!

It's a standard exercise for Electrical Engineering studies. Only an ignorant person would not realize that doing it at 1 volt makes the problem easier to calculate, and that interpolating it to "household electricity" simply requires multiplying by 120, 240, or whatever value you want it to be.

It won't make any difference, because the point is that when you determine where that "path of least resistance" is, one of the things you find is that it is *not* out there on the periphery.

I probably did understand more about that when I was in HS than you do now. But I'm a retired old fart, with a lot of very gray whiskers.

[Clark]

[e-mail] (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote in news: [e-mail]:

It's clear that you don't have a clue about what I think because you continue to argue a lost cause. QED.

Not at all son. The topic is that the photo was staged and you claimed otherwise. You are clearly wrong.

Horseshit. There is a hell of a lot of difference between not understanding and not accepting your misdirection. You lost any credibility when you said the photo wasn't staged and no matter how much you whine about it now you are still wrong.

You miss my point entirely while smearing egg all over your face. Your ignorant claim that "doing it at 1 volt makes the problem easier to calculate" shows that you've never learned algebra. Floyd, it doesn't matter if you multiply by your desired current at the beginning or end of the problem, the calculations are exactly the same.

Again, you miss the point entirely. I told you to draw the paths. You pick a particular example that doesn't describe the danger. Your example proves nothing about the total system safety for the case in point. Got it?

Your manner makes it clear that you lack experience and wisdom but you have some rudimentary writing skill so you are classified as high school. However your claim to be better than your correspondent does knock you down a notch to junior high. Sorry about that.

Maybe you should try to learn something rather than spouting off with ludicrous claims. Now, junior high boy, go try to learn something before you make more ridiculous claims about whether or not a photo is staged.

[Floyd L. Davidson]

It seems that all you can do is post gratuitious personal insults; but the topic of this thread is about electricity, and you don't seem to have even the most basic understanding of how it works.

You probably think if someone is sitting in the bathtub and drops an electric hair dry, plugged in and working, into the water that they will be electrocuted... and who knows how many other myths!

Whatever, when you figure out that the problem I gave you is not solved with algrebra, and that it is indeed a lot easier to work with using 1 volt and 1 ohm, come back and I'll teach you a few other neat things about electricity.

In the mean time, keep your day job, because electrical theory is never going to pay your bills. (Not that you couldn't be trained to wire a house by rote and by note; but someone else is going to have to set the rules.)

[trader4]

You mean like this?

2 Electrocuted in Bathtub UPI Published: October 30, 1984 An electric hair dryer fell into a bathtub while two children were bathing tonight, electrocuting the 8-year- old girl and her 6-year-old brother, the authorities said.

The children, Sandra and Shawn Austin, were pronounced dead at Fort Worth hospitals, the police said. Officers said the children were found by an older sister when she went to check on them. The sister told the police she had placed the hair dryer on a shelf or on a sink in the bathroom, but officers did not know how it was knocked or fell into the tub. "

Idiot

de quoted text -

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Appropriately signed, Idiot.

But when you have to go back a quarter of a century to find an example where that is claimed, maybe the claim isn't so good.

Regardless, two children... who don't know enough to just pick it up and throw it out. Or to just step out, and probably aren't big enough to do that without grabbing onto something... like the water spigot (which in fact will get you electrocuted).

But the average adult who has that experience survives without even getting a tingle from it.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

It was humor, not a troll. There is a difference. Really.

[trader4]

Or maybe every accidental electrocution in a pool or bathtub doesn't make it to the major newspapers where it can be found by popping up on a quick search.

Here;s a novel thought. Why don't you cite a reference that says the practice shown in the pool pic is one that is safe? Or that a hair dryer falling into a bathtub isn't anything to worry about because it can't harm you.

Hmmm, now how is that? You spent the last 5 posts going back and forth with Clark, trying to make the case that water has too high a resistance for enough current to be conducted to ever harm anyone standing in it. Yet, now, you attribute the two girls deaths in exactly the situation you say can't happen, to grabbing onto a water spigot. Well, unless you're gonna now argue the water spigot was energized, there goes your whole BS argument.

And what you just stated above clearly shows you;re an idiot. No one in their right mind that is familiar with electricity would ever advocate that someone sitting in a bathtub should PICK UP THE HAIR DRYER THAT JUST FELL IN and remove it.

The average adult survives many unsafe and potentially deadly things, including car wrecks and gun shots. The average adult will survive two pulls of the trigger at Russian roulette. That doesn't make those things safe. That argument is specious.

[Floyd L. Davidson]

I've not said that.

You need to learn to read.

The pool pic is not something that is "safe". It's just something that is not necessarily going to kill you. Same with the hair dryer falling into the bathtub. Both situations, with the wrong circumstances, *can* *kill*

*you*.

The myth is the idea that either one is *necessarily* going to kill you.

With the right circumstances, nobody gets electrocuted. And that is what happens quite often.

If you watch the movies you'd think that tossing a radio or hair dryer into the bathtub with someone is necessarily going to result in their death. In fact it just about as likely to not hurt them at all, and thoroughly convince them that they should hurt

*you*. ;-)

You do understand the difference between being 5-10 feet away from a grounded point in fresh water, and being 6 inches from the source of electricity in soapy water, eh?

It's a huge difference, and one of life or death.

That can't happen in a pool where there is no water spigot.

Generally bathtubs all have at least a water spigot and a drain, both of which are grounded. Many have other grounded fixtures too. Some (mine) have *none*, but that is rare.

Grounded.

Ahem, you are the one who signs as an Idiot, and makes idiotic statements out of ignorance and apparently were educated by what you've seen in the movies...

That's not true. Grabbing the cord, at the most distant point, and flinging it out, would probably be safe enough.

If the water is dirty, don't do it though. On the other hand if the water was just run and has no soap...

So you admit that it is not necessarily going to electrocute someone just because the hair dryer falls into the tub.

That *is* the point.

You didn't sign this article?

[trader4]

I can read. Referr "Not a problem. (Actually, I've set up something fairly similar to that, and been in the water.) "

Interesting we're hearing this from you for the first time.

No one here ever claimed any such thing in the entire thread, as far as I can tell.

With the right circumstances, you don't get killed playing Russian roulette, either.

So, 50% probability of something hurting you or not hurting you is your threshold for safety. That makes a lot of sense.

You dismissed the bathtub electrocution story from the NY TImes as irrelevant because it was from 25 years ago. Then you advised that the kids should have just picked up the dryer. And now you want to talk about distances? Hello?

It can happen when someone steps in the pool, with one foot in and one foot out. In can happen when someone reaches for something outside the pool that is metal and grounded. It could be the liner has a small leak, right near where you're standing while grilling on that stupid setup. Clark and I pointed this out 10 posts ago. Pay attention.

It figures a kook like you would have some strange bathtub with no spigot or drain.

Did you figure that out all by yourself too?

This is what you just posted:

"> Regardless, two children... who don't know enough to

And "It", for those that have just joined us, is an electric hair dryer that fell into the tub the girls were in. So your recommending that someone sitting in a bathtub where a hair dryer has fallen in, should pick it up and throw it out as the safe move. I'll let others judge who's the idiot here.

But that isn't what you said is it? You said "pick it up".

I didn't see any qualifier in your blanket statement. Do you now expect 8 year old girls to run test on the composition of the water? Idiot.

No one in this entire thread, certainly not me, ever said electrocution is 100% certain. But I did say:

1 - What was shown in that pic was likely staged. And in no way should it be considered safe or OK. 2 - If a hair dryer falls into a bathtub, it CAN kill you.

3 - Only an idiot would say 8 year old girls sitting in a bathtub in which a hair dryer has just fallen in should just "pick it up and throw it out"

[Floyd L. Davidson]

And from this point it just gets worse for you...

[snipped about 60 lines of nothing but emotional hype]

When we get down to dealing with *facts*, you blow it every time.

In a plastic pool, setting on a plastic ground cover, which is on a bricked surface that no doubt has several feet of compacted and well drained sand or gravel below it? Do you know what "insulator" spells???

Do you really think that 5 or 10 feet of clean water is a good conductor?

And a very cursory inspection of the set of photos we are discussing demonstrated that there isn't a grounded piece of metal within maybe 50 feet of anyone in that pool.

Do you really think that "a small leak" is a good conductor???

Or that the ground under it is?

The trouble you can Clark have is that neither of you have a clue what to pay attention to. Citing marvelous myths that you've picked up from watching TV and movies won't get it.

See what I mean about learning to read. There are *no* grounded fixtures in my bathroom. There are no metal pipes to conduct electricity.

The problem is that you said "energized", wich isn't right. I said "grounded", which is. And you don't understand the difference.

You're pretty hot on emotional hype, and totally lacking when it comes to technical expertize.

[trader4]

Now, you're making things up. It was never specified what was outside the pool when you proclaimed the settup OK. But once again you show your igorance. Only a fool would think that a brick surface on a sand base around a pool is an insulator. Are you aware that plenty of people have been electrocuted standing on damp concrete, in damp shoes? And I suppose the pool area is gonna be bone dry? Idiot!

How the hell so you know what's sitting just outside the pool? Anyone dumb enough to do what is shown is dumb enough to have a metal tray table sitting outside the pool, where you can't see it in the photo. Yet, you went ahead and proclaimed this settup as OK.

Now you're arguing that wet earth from a pool leak isn't a good conductor too. What do you think it takes? Only an 8 ft ground rod will provide sufficient current path to kill you? Idiot.

Not a myth. I showed you a NY Times article, where two 8 year old girls were electrocuted sitting in a bathtub, when a hair dryer fell in. That was exactly the scenario you mocked as being a myth and not being potentially lethal. Your response: They could have prevented that by just picking up the hair dryer and tossing it out. Idiot.

No, now pay attention. You claimed that perhaps the girls were killed because they grabbed a spigot. Now, according to you, water in these situations is a great insulator. So, how then could touching something grounded make any difference? That's why I mocked your foolishness by asking if you were now gonna argue that the spigot was energized, meaning that's where the hot was that killed them, not the hairdryer.

I'll let others judge who knows what they are talking about. Here's some of your gems:

"You probably think if someone is sitting in the bathtub and drops an electric hair dry, plugged in and working, into the water that they will be electrocuted... and who knows how many other myths! "

So, I showed you a NY Times story of two 8 year old girls that were electrocuted in a bathtub after a hair dryer fell in and your response:

"Regardless, two children... who don't know enough to just pick it up and throw it out. Or to just step out, and probably aren't big enough to do that without grabbing onto something... like the water spigot (which in fact will get you electrocuted)."

Or from the start of the thread, your comments on the picture of the pool:

"Nothing looks "staged", or phoney for that matter. "

"Not a problem. (Actually, I've set up something fairly similar to that, and been in the water.) "

Based on the above, everyone can judge who's the idiot giving out false and misleading information. But, based on this and some of your other threads, I think most of us already know.

[Floyd L. Davidson]

Speaking of ignorance... look at the images of the pool we are talking about.

You sign you name well, Idiot.

Look at the images of the pool we are talking about. "Damp concrete" has nothing to do with it.

Well?

They provided a whole pile of images, thats how.

There are pictures. There are no metal trays. Nothing that is ground. Keep imagining, but please get a clue!

Well, there actually are places where an 8 ftoo ground rod

*won't* do it. In most places an inch of water on the surface spread over 10 feet *away* from you won't do it either.

You need to study that little excerise I outlined for Clark.

He liked the idea of "path of least resistance", but didn't have any idea where it was. You don't seem to know what it is.

They likely as not won't be.

It's a great stunt for how to murder someone in a movie. In real life it doesn't work so well...

That you haven't got much of a clue about electricity, and don't have any idea what the mechanics of either the pool or a bathtub are.

All you can do is jump up and down "It's electric, you'll die!"

[willshak]

If not a better conductor with less resistance. Why does a submerged car keep the lights on?

[Floyd L. Davidson]

I can't tell for your text exactly what it is you believe that indicates.

What it does indicate is that clean water is not a particularly good conductor, otherwise it would short out the electrical system and the lights would go out very quickly. Instead, they stay on for quite awhile, simply because while water is a better conductor than air, there isn't that much difference as far as the lights/battery are concerned.

[hallerb]

=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF= [e-mail]

12 volt car electrical systems dont have the ability to kill or short out dramatically like 120 volts AC does.

would the person who claims this is safe volunteer to demonstrate.

I am not afraid of electric have worked on high voltage systems over the years up to 50,000 volts. but i respect electric and wouldnt have a power line around a pool.

just 14 milli amps can kill a human

[Oren]

Given a right circumstance I have been shocked by a car battery. Bare foot (wet feet) tool slipped to metal contact.. I been shocked this way; some how. It was only once.

Oren

--

[Floyd L. Davidson]

If you don't think so, just drop a wrench across a car battery's terminals and see what happens!

Car batteries are even more dramatic than 120 VAC. One of them just arcs and sparks and makes a bit of ozone... but the battery is a bomb that blows up!

Less than that.

[Floyd L. Davidson]

That's like saying only acid is conductive.

The fact is, there's everything in between, and clear tap water is *not* a good conductor.

[Clark]

[e-mail] (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote in news: [e-mail]:

understanding

You really are clueless. You are confusing arithmatic and mathematics. Do get some education so you stop embarassing yourself.

Ok, listen up real close. Go weld underwater and tell me all about how it's perfectly safe. It will shock you and you will understand that combining electricity and water is really stupid. Well, then again, since you don't seem to have much comprehension of the world around you the point will undoubtedly be missed. Oh well.