Bad 3-Way Switch-- Again

[Wade Garrett]

A couple of years ago, I replaced a pair of little-used (and only during the summer) standard 20 amp Leviton 3-way toggle light switches controlling a Hunter Original ceiling fan because at least one of the switches had failed.

I installed the same then-current model Levitons and everything worked fine for a few years. And don't you know, at least one of them has just now failed!

The original switches and the fan were installed during a room addition construction project by a licensed electrician hired by the general contractor whom we've used for years and does very good work.

What are the chances of this being just a random second switch failure vs. needing to get an electrician out to check it over?

[Scott Lurndal]

The chances are high that you've got a problem that should be looked at.

[Marilyn Manson]

For the price of a switch vs. an electrician, I'd give at least one more switch a try - and I'm as anal as they come about finding the root cause.

I've had problems with various Leviton devices, including exhaust fan humidistat switches and smart dimmer plugs. Granted, those devices are a bit more complicated than a 3-way switch, but if the company quality control issues, it could be product-line wide.

[Marilyn Manson]

Just for the sake of discussion, what problems can you think of that would break a 3-way switch?

Obvious signs of arcing, loose connections, etc. would certainly be something to look for, but outside of that, e.g. if the switch has failed mechanically, can you think of anything that could cause that?

[Scott Lurndal]

'nuf said.

Two failures on something as ultra-reliable as a Leviton switch?

Was the correct switch chosen for the application? Switching motor loads isn't the normal job for a residential light switch.

[Marilyn Manson]

Stranger things have certainly happened.

As I noted in an earlier post, I have had problems with higher-end Leviton devices - humidistats and smart plugs. Their quality control issues could be systemic.

He did say a licensed electrician installed the original switch and then he replaced it with the same switch. Sure, not all licensed electricians are equal, so it could have been the wrong switch to start with.

[Dean Hoffman]

The instructions say to use a general use switch. I found another reference that said the load would be 2 amps with just the fan, 3 amps with a light.

[Wade Garrett]

What would be the right switch to use?

It's a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit. There are several outlets on that circuit-- but the fan is the only thing the switch controls. Hunter says the fan draws 2 amps.

[Wade Garrett]

Is there a special kind of switch for motors I should get?

This is a 20 amp switch on a 20 amp circuit controlling a fan that the mfr says draws only 2 amps.

There are several outlets on the circuit but the switch only controls the fan.

[Wade Garrett]

The Hunter Fan website says 2 amps for my model also.

[Scott Lurndal]

When you say 'failed', what do you mean? Does the switch physically allow the toggle to move, or is it stuck? Does it move, but not close the contacts (failed off) or move but not open the contacts (failed on)?

[Wade Garrett]

The fan only turns if the A switch and the B switch are both in the DOWN position.

The fan does not turn with any if the other possible combinations of UPs and DOWNs.

[gfretwell]

I would agree if he didn't say "20a". Those are usually spec or commercial grade and they will be listed for motor loads. It will be marked on the switch body or yoke. If this is the Chinese dollar bin specials, 2 bad ones would not shock me (no pun intended)

[TimR]

So it's a 3-way switch, meaning you can turn the fan on or off from either of two locations?

And it did work for some years, but now you need to have both switches on for it to work?

I've had that happen with a light, and replacing the switch fixed it. I don't see any reason a special switch would be needed.

I think you probably just had a switch go bad. But I would check that the connection wires inside the box were still solid. If one slipped loose I think you might get that.

[gfretwell]

We are assuming it worked OK for a while and quit, you do seem to have one switch that is not switching. Do they both feel the same when you operate them? The other possibility is a bad connection on one of the travelers. Did they use the screws or stabbed

[Marilyn Manson]

Does Leviton even make back-stabbed 3-way switches? I wouldn't expect a 20A spec or commercial grade switch to have back-stabbed holes available.

[Anonymous]

Yes they do.

See

"20 Amp, 120 Volt, Toggle Lighted Handle - Illuminated OFF 3-Way AC Quiet Switch, Industrial Grade, Self Grounding, Back & Side Wired, - White"

[Marilyn Manson]

Back wired is not the same as back-stabbed.

Back wired often (usually, these days?) means that the wire is inserted under a plate from the back of the device and the screw is then tightened, securing the wire.

Back-stabbed means that there is a hole in the back of the device that contains a sharp metal tab that bends as the wire is inserted and then digs into the wire to hold it in place. They are known to be problematic.

The 1223-LHW has the plate, therefore it is not a back-stab device.

[Wade Garrett]

Both switches feel normal to throw up or down.

Wire connections solid-- correct strip length and tightly looped CW around correct terminals.

[micky]

By failed, you mean that the fan didn't go on at all??

Not that it woudln't turn off or was intermittent

And you didn't hear sparking or see it through the handle.

You replaced both when surely only one was broken?