Bzzzzt, wrong answer and asumption, would you like to try for whgat is
behind Door #1.......
In your statement above, you make at least ONE very hugh assumtion that
is NOT correct. You assume that it takes many seconds, or minuets, of
backfeed power to electrocute someone downline. This is patently a
FALSE Assumtion. With the Transformers on the poles any amount of power
that gets put on the line generates an extremely Highvoltage Spike,
upline. It doesn't take, but a few miliseconds, of this spike to fry any
grounded entitiy across the HV side of the line. To protect linemen from
such spikes, they employ Grounding Straps on BOTH SIDES of the work area,
that in theory should protect them from such spikes. If the straps are
not installed correctly or if the workers are installing the straps
without using HotSticks, then they can certainly be ZAPPED by such
spikes, or power backfeed into the system. If you don't believe this
is true, just go ask any Lineman, and be prepared to get an earfull....
How would any lineman know? If they have been "zapped" by this high voltage
spike you speak of, they wouldn't be telling you about it usually.
If they are putting grounds on a line with their bare hands it won't take a wild
generator to kill them.
They wouldn't have need to tell "Me", as I have been there, and seen
that, many times, in one of my previous lives. Have you ever really
looked at the Grounding Straps used by the Pro's? Have you ever noticed
that they have builtin devices that show if they go "Hot" while
connected? Where did the "Bare Hands" come from? All the linemen, I
have ever known work with UL Approved Insulated Gloves, and HotSticks,
but that doesn't mean they never get zapped or tingled on occasion.
We don't use potential or current indicator and our "ground straps" are not
straps at all but rather 2/0 or larger copper, tested for impedance, less than
0.02 (forget value) resistance.
The phases are connected to the ground and/or neutral conductor and then with
equipotential grounding techniques our feet are connected to that potential also
in one or maore of many ways. Now we are standing in a certified, insulated to
1KV per inch tested every 6 months, boom mounted bucket doing overhead work. For
U/G work we have 10Kv insulated boots on (law), 20kV insulated class 2 rubber
gloves or whatever class necesasry for system voltage, flash glasses and an
Nothing is ever considered dead unless grounded. Nothing is ever ground without
testing first. Nothing is ever tested without a legally registered process and
documented procedure, checked by at least two other certified people to switch
the piece of line or equipment out. This involves tagged locks and so on and so
People caught violating any process can and will be fired upon multiple or
careless usage at any part.
In short, I do not agree with backfeeding carelessness but the excuse is mostly
crap but they have to tell you something to stop it.
Bull. In the last 5 years we have had 3 poweroutages where I used my
generator. There wasn't a lineman within 5 miles of me on any of them. My
2kw generator is going to power up 80 square miles? Don't think so.
Well it is easy to see that you "Don't think" period. Just what do you
think happens when your genset tries to energize a segment of the grid
by backfeeding thru the PolePig out on your pole? Does that one or two
second pulse before you little gensets goes up in smoke, show up on the
primary side of the PolePig? At what voltage does that impluse show
up at?. How far does that pulse go, before it dies of IR losses?
When you complete your 100 level College Course on Power & Transmission
come back and tell us all about it. Untill then, don't spread your
intelligence around to deeply cause your not fertilizing any crops.....
Care to tell me which brand of consumer level generator (~5kw) can
sustain a "one or two second" pulse into a megawatt level load? This
class of generator does not have a separate exciter to provide field
power under short circuit conditions. The field would collapse in
milliseconds or less if the generator was hot when it was connected, or
if an attempt was made to start the generator while connected, the field
would never develop in the first place.
Who said anything about 80 square miles?
If my generator attempted to backfeed the grid during our last outage, it
would have put 4KV on our feed poles without any difficulty whatsoever.
Hint: the 4KV disconnect feeding our pole pig _only_, had fried.
In our ice storm, since the closest break was only a few houses away,
the generator would have probably managed to energize two houses'
feeds (people were instructed to kill their main breakers until
told otherwise) and put 4KV up on the local distribution segment.
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
I did; up a few posts. The three time I have used my generator, there
hasn't been a lineman within 10 miles of my house; hence 80 square miles.
Yeh, and then what?
Ah, but that hasn't happed to me.
That's true in your case, but not in mine.
Besides, how long would my 2kw have lasted trying to energize two houses?
I don't bother to bring out the genny unless it is clear that the outage
will last more than a few hours; so what are the odds that there is a
lineman on my feed when I turn it on?
And if there was, would there have been enough amperage to do anything? The
two house, and whatever I have on, is a rather better ground than the
lineman. I doubt he would have gotten measurable amperage despite the
Still, I have transfer switch now.
A transfer switch also avoids the scenario that the power has failed in your
area for days and the neighbours, seeing your heat and lights running, now want
you to "share" some power for a few hours to prevent their pipes from freezing.
The utility can open the line disconnect ahead of the transformer so you have no
other excuse not to.
Your foresight and people laughing at you (maybe only on NGs)
Your hard work.
Your embarassment if your refuse. Ever play brick dodgeball?
"I can't. The system is set up so it can't be done"
That's a simple matter of explaining insurance policies, "You see I
bought this insurance policy called a generator and you didn't". Perhaps
they'll think about investing in an insurance policy for the next outage
As for "brick dodgeball", I have a video camera and a gun so any attack
will be documented and the guilty party held for the police.
that may be true, I couldn't say
but I am really bothered by the very racist hurricane thing they are
doing now, what with naming them after GREEK LETTERS.
What do the Greeks have to do with US hurricanes anyway.
It's not like they even start in the Aegean or anything
"i'm very curious about different systems, and time you plunge into an
early-adopter situation, there re unknown risks. But I felt that we
could navigate it. It tourned out to be true"--Walter Murch
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