Well the service guy said the burner had too much rust and showed me
that the burner wasn't burning all the gas. Consequently, he turned
off the gas to the furnace and told me the furnace could blow up if I
tried to light it up. He could replace the burner, but this company
stopped making furnaces 20 years ago, so parts would be difficult to
get and the total cost to replace the burner with labor would amount
Well the estimate for a new furnace(80percent) with new digital
thermostat, and the surrounding ductwork and 2 man all day labor
amounts to $4750, 10 percent off for cash. He said the price of steel
had gone up dramatically the last 2 years. Now I will get a couple of
Is this a typical price? Archived messages range from under 2000 to
above 4000. Never saw a price as high as my estimate in the archives
even for a 90 percent model. A 96 percent model will cost over 2000
Anyone have experience with Home Depot's referral service? I normally
check out the Better Business Bureau for companies that are
(preferably)members and don't have any outstanding complaints. Better
yet, members who don't have any complaints at all in the past 36
months. I wonder if Home Depot screens their referrals. I ask, because
maybe Home Depot gives deals to the companies that they refer.
Paid 4100CA$ for 94.4% Carrier Infinity in Toronto. That is about 3300US$.
As far as I know furnace cost about 2000CA$, other is installation. 2 guys
spend 4 hours putting new PVC pipes, removing old furnaces and installing
new furnace. As you are probably from New York, prices there might be
higher, but I belive estimate you got is too high.
I received a quote of $1900CAD (1600US) to install a Frigidaire G6RA 72k or
96k 80%upflow. No ductwork required, just a plenum transistion of 15in for
the shorter furnace. I priced the furnace at approx $710CAD so the
contractor is making around $900 for a day's work. Here's the link for the
The 92% model was about $350CAD more but the contractor wanted $900 more to
install it. I don't think this is fair since the only additional work is to
run 2 PVC/ABS pipes outside and run a condensate line to the floor drain.
Get another tech out, did he clean the burner.
The BBB only takes complaints if they mediate the case, you wont find
true info with them. I hired a guy I found out to late that he lost 15
small claims cases in 3 yrs, none were listed in the BBB. The BBB is
honestly a joke. Court records are better and your city lisencing dept.
What size unit, brand, model, Goodman or Lennox, how hard is the
instal, how much duct work, etc.etc , nobody can say.
I had a price of 2700 for a Carrier infinity 93.5% with VS motor,
but easy instal, Again get prices and another tech to ck your unit
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:47:54 -0600, firstname.lastname@example.org (m Ransley)
No. He said it would take 4-5 hours to replace the burner.I don't
think he mentioned cleaning the burner, just replacing it. If the
burner is firing, but not as brightly as it used to, is it just rust
and debris and gunk? I had also previously asked for an estimate for a
new carrier furnace from a nother guy at this company, so I think the
tech was going to push for a new furnace not matter what, and tell me
me the burner replacement wouldn't make sense.
Six years ago I had an intermittent problem with my gas furnace.
My service guy, recommended by friends, said the heat exchanger had a crack
and that he would have to shut down the furnace for safety reasons (carbon
monoxide). Since the heat exchanger was no longer available, a new furnace
would have to be installed for $ 3000.
I turned the furnace on and used a $ 20 carbon monoxide monitor from HD.
Then I called my public utility because they perform free safety checks on
furnaces. The could not find anything wrong with the heat exchanger. They
fixed a lose wire from my thermostat.
Six years later this furnace is still working great.
Don't trust a word a politician or a HVAC "technician" utters. They get a
commission on furnace replacements, not on tightening a screw on a
The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net
Did you happen to read what the alarm rating on that POS carbon detector
was? Like all of them I've seen at HD, it probably won't alarm until it
hits 45 PPM for 30 minutes....
Yeah, and they knew better? I followed a utility guy once that said the
Tstat was bad. It turned out that the power was off to the furnace...
And you may be wondering why your kids are always sick....
Not always true.
Before I went into business for myself, I refused to work for companies that
paid a parts commission to the techs. Now, if I see a problem with a
furnace that would be a major repair, I show the homeowner the problem. I
also use a Co detector that is calibrated 2X a year. I'm a pro at what I do
and it's obvious the guy you had out wasn't...
That's a pretty broad statement. I was a service tech for over 35
years, during which time I never got a commission on anything, and I
tightened a lot of screws.
BTW, I agree about the politician part.
Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
Call for a furnace cleaning , nothing else . Tell the new tech you are
keeping the unit, and just want it clean.
You said it isnt burning " brightly" do you mean it isnt a bright
yellow flame, or blue flame. Yellow is poor-cold-rich combustion, blue-
white is correct. The gas is in the chamber, right, and gets burned,
eficiently or not the only way you are in damger is if the exchanger or
unit is leaking Co, burnt gas, into the house. You did not say your
heat exchanger was cracked or Co readings were high.
4- 5 hrs to clean a burner sounds like bull. You got conned by a
salesman. So what if you have to get 3 more techs to inspect it. You
will find an honest one. If the Doc says you are dying you get a second
opinion, you need more bids anyway, your price sounds way high
If you researched this on the MANY search engines available you would know
that NO ONE can compare prices over the Internet.
Our crystal balls are all broke because WE AREN'T THERE!
Do the research, then get the quotes. That is what you will pay.
This is Turtle.
First : You need a service man that will clean all that rust out of there and
see how it burns afterwards. I can clean one in about 45 minutes and put it back
together and this is not a major job. I think the service man wanted to sell a
new furnace and too lazy to clean it. I would call another service compant and
tell them to give it a good cleaning and you might be surprised to see what
happens. Rusted up burners is a common problem and i see them rusted up all the
time. I clean them out and they run fine. The only reason I may say change the
burners or a new furnace would be the burners have big holes rusted through them
and letting the gas not come out of the louvers of the burners. If they are not
rusted through. Clean them out and be happy.
Now to a new furnace and the price. I could not say on price for i've not seen
the job and know what area of the country you live in. Now i will say this by
seeing the prices you got. I would get a second opinion or bid on this job.
Well as i said here , Get a service company to come and be Real about fixing it
and Clean the burners and fire it back up. Now if you want a new furnce get you
one but if you don't mine have a old one that works good. Get a respectiable
service company to come really Clean it.
The thing is, I had to spend 140 bucks just for this guy to show up
and look around. He said it would take 4-5 hours to take out the
burner and replace it at 97 bucks an hour labor.ANother company I had
considered using said they would also charge just to show up and one
hour labor minimum.
Problem is, I don't have the knowledge to know if it is just rust or
not. I am at their mercy and I can't keep calling numerous companies
because all charge a service charge just to show up I assume.
BTW, this is a 100k btu unit. Don't know if the others who quoted
prices have 100k units, or if that would be the reason for the high
price even on a 80 percent unit.
So no one here in the US used the Home Depot referral?
So just so I don't sound like I am completely clueless( which I am) to
the next service guy, I should say the following?
1)Hey, I noticed the flame is not burning as much as it used to, and I
am worried about an explosion There is tons of rust and this thing has
probably not been cleaned out in 20 years. So can you clean this and
how long and how much?
Or on the phone when making the appointment, tell them:
2)My burner on my gas furnace is rusted and I need it cleaned out. I
wonder if you can clean out all the gunk so that the flames underneath
burn as brightly as they used to.
Anyway, won't any service guy just try to sell me a new
furnace?Especially for one that looks all rusted and from a company
that no longer makes them?
Are there generic burners that can be replaced in an old defunct
Any suggestions? I am assuing I SHOULD not ask for a someone to come
and give me an estimate or they will just try to sell me a new furnace
as with this guy.
Last week, I cancelled a service call and estimate from another
company. I assume I should not recall them since they know I was
asking for an estimate for a new furnace.
Thanks for all the info.
Ask them if their service people get commissions for selling furnaces.
Commissions to service techs give the contractor plausible
deniability. He didn't tell his service techs to rip off customers. He
just simply gave them an incentive to do so.
Avoid like the plague any company that advertises cut-rate furnace
cleaning specials. These are sales companies disguised as service
Once you find a company that doesn't lure its techs over to the dark
side with commissions, just tell them you want your furnace cleaned.
Do NOT mention explosions. That was just a scare 'em and sell 'em
Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
Or you could try the truth. [it usually works for me]
'I have an old burner with problems.. . . . [name the brand & age if
you can--that way, if they have a choice they can send you the old guy
that knows that model instead of the new guy right out of school]
'xxxx company looked at it and they think I need to replace it. I'd
like your opinion. [this leaves them an opening to badmouth their
competition, praise them, or just mumble something.. . . pay
attention. ] I know it at least needs a good cleaning. What do you
charge to clean or at least give it a good looking over? '
No. I was discussing replacing my 25 year old oil burner a few
years ago. I had looked at some on the showroom of my service
people. When the guy showed up to clean the furnace I asked if he
thought I was due for a new one. "Let's see how efficient this one
is first" he said. He cleaned it, checked the plenum carefully, and
tested it and gave me the efficiency number. [80% or so, if I
He did the math on the back of his hand and said I *might* save myself
a service call in the next few years, but it would take a decade to
pay for the new high efficiency furnace in oil saved. He
pronounced my old burner both safe and fairly efficient.
Check around your neighborhood to see if anyone has a
serviceman/company that they're happy with. Personally I'd write off
the guy that left you hanging. At worst he was just trying to
rip you off-- but even in the best case he didn't adequately explain
to you what your furnace's problem was.
If that ends up to be the company that your neighbors like, I'd call
them up and explain that you were unsure of what you wanted last week,
but since then you've heard good things about their company & you'd
like their opinion.
80% is a good number, but you are looking at the steady state efficiency,
not the annual efficiency (AFUE).
I've checked 15 year old gas fired hot air furnaces that had a 83 to 86%
There is a difference.
You really want me to think tonight, don't you? I'm not going to get this
right, but I'll try.
Here on my desk, I have a rating plate off of a GE furnace. While I can't
be sure of the date, I'm sure the furnaces they were attached to were made
in the late 1970's. They show an input of 160K and an output of 132.8K,
80%, right? What about the pilot? Then you have to add the efficiency of
the blower motor and the 110v/24v transformer. (BTW, that direct drive
blower was huge compared to the blower that replaced it) This is what drags
down the efficiency.
So i've asked a couple times in other threads, trying to find the
rated efficiency of my furnace.
It claims to be rated for 130K BTU output for water.
but then has "AGA" rating of
input !8,000 BTU
output = 172,800 BTU
Does that mean efficiency is:
172800 / 218000 = 79% or
130000/218000 = 59%
Considering the boiler was installed 50 years ago (estimated) I'm
guessing 59%, but I could be wrong.
Please don't make me post to the HVAC group... I hear they're mean. ;)
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
With what little I know about age and design and a unit I had replaced
your unit was 59% is now much less, maybe 50-55%. Modern units with no
pilot and a auto chimney damper are 82-83% . no pilot and damper raise
efficiency 5-10% Look into a modern condensing unit , they range from
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