On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:44:43 -0800 (PST), trader_4
Century Link is pushing 10meg down copper and selling the
TV/Internet/VOIP deal with existing wire in the ground.
They just need a fiber concentrator fairly close.
I bet they are thinking about the same deal.
On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 8:34:57 PM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
s of old rural landlines for old rural home phones was. He said it all wou
ld be abandoned in 5 years (2020). It would be replaced with VOIP over the
ir required satellite service (Dish). Cost would start at $19.95/mo without
all the current taxes but I'm sure they'll want you to take more services.
Sounds pretty shaky if you need to dial 911 in a hurry and coverage is do
wn due to weather.
there are cell vcompanies providing local phone service for as low as 10 bu
cks a month..........
if you can get any cell service around your home. it can work/\\
with a exterior directional antenna, or cell repeater..
at this point few if any need local phone service.
my great aunt wants it, her verizon phone drop copper failed, after a big f
ight they replaced the copper line from pole to street.
around here verizon pushes fios. my 2 years with their crap fios service wa
s too much for a lifetime. it was 2 years of hell, before i was able to can
i insited they remove te NID and copper drop, Isaid OK I am putting up a bi
g banner across my lawn FIOS sucks is that what you want?
they removed the drop.
their total lack of customer service was astounding.
if anyone is interested i can post my experience...........
On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 4:35:19 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
tus of old rural landlines for old rural home phones was. He said it all w
ould be abandoned in 5 years (2020). It would be replaced with VOIP over t
heir required satellite service (Dish). Cost would start at $19.95/mo witho
ut all the current taxes but I'm sure they'll want you to take more service
s. Sounds pretty shaky if you need to dial 911 in a hurry and coverage is
down due to weather.
bucks a month..........
I think the problem there is that in those very rural areas,
the choice of cell phone carriers is limited, if available at all.
I'd wonder how many are going to find one at all, let alone at $10 a month.
Also, the $10 a month cell phone plans I've seen, you get maybe 200 mins,
if that. With existing copper, you can talk to your friends and family
locally all you want and even long distance is cheap. For unlimited
voice on cell, it's typically $35 - $40 a month. But that still isn't
bad, provided one can get it where the need it.
We have a landline thru the local provider because cell phones don't work
down here in The Holler and they are the only option besides satellite for
internet - which from what I've heard really really sucks .
We have 2 of the pay-as-you-go cell phones for use when we're out and
about , but generally only use them for emergency or long distance calls -
we don't have LD service on the land line because of the cost .
On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 12:36:20 PM UTC-5, notbob wrote:
Has anyone said that Frontier isn't still providing landline service
on copper? The reason all providers want to get out of copper is
that it's a whole separate, dying, costly infrastructure to maintain
and probably has lousy profit margins compared to VOIP.
The future is VOIP over infrastructure that supports not only that,
but cable TV, interent, etc.
They acquire it in order to acquire local monoply rights as the
internet provider. They have no interest in supporting the lines. It's
cheaper for them to lose customers and pay the fines if/when customers
file complaints with the PUC than to perform the necessary maintenance
on the lines. If you search Frontier and rural online you'll find tons
of complaints about their poor service and decaying infrastructure.
On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 3:15:50 PM UTC-5, email@example.com wrote:
By getting out of copper I mean the typical twisted pair, 22g? stuff, ie the old installed base that POTS runs on and that we're talking about. If
Century is doing cable TV, internet and VOIP on copper it must be on coax
or similar, not the old POTS stuff.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:30:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4
Nope Regular old CAT 3, 3 pair flooded burial cable. I am not sure how
they are getting away with it but I assume it is multiple channels of
data on the wire, merged in the DSL modem. I also think they are using
2 pair if you have the TV package.
I am getting 10 meg DSL on a single pair tho.
The fiber concentrator is about a mile away.
On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 12:31:01 AM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I took a look at Century website, it looks like the TV is via DirectTV,
ie sat, not copper, no? So, from what I see, looks like they have a
higher speed DSL service for the internet and phone part.
IDK what "flooded" cable is. gel filled? But whatever it is, they are
using 3 pairs and only going 1 mile at which point you have fiber.
Doesn't sound like what is strung up on the poles in rural America for POTS,
been there for 50 years, has unknown number of taps, bridges, etc,
that we're talking about. It's apparently higher speed DSL, which
has all the problems DSL has always had, because it relies on the old,
existing copper. I'm sure you're aware of the iffy nature of DSL.
I would agree that it can be part of the solution
for some areas. Even then, the phone company is going to have
to put in new infrastructure, eg the fiber part to get close to the
last mile or so, taking out that part of the copper. I also wonder
if you'd find most rural places with limited infrastructure have enough pairs
to give everybody 3?
Perhaps I should have said "most providers" want to get out of copper.
The OP's experience with ATT, apparently the largest local phone
company in the USA, being an example. The broader problem and driving
force behind it is that in probably 90% of the customer base where they
have copper, better competing alternatives are already available, eg
cable, fiber. They definitely want to get out of maintaining that copper infrastructure, because it'costly to maintain, customers have been leaving it
in droves and it's not competitive at all with the alternatives.
Yeah, there's no way they're doing any of that over the "old
copper"...we still have the ATT (Southwestern) hard line to the house
for precisely the reason others noted; it's rural, we have long-run
electric service lines from co-op that are subject to outages w/ only
one or two meters being affected and it still works often when other
doesn't because while Cu, it is almost all buried line now rather than
on-pole so ice doesn't take it down.
BUT, those advantages aside, we're _only_ 5 mi or so from the central
station in town and the dialup connection could never reach even 56k.
W/ a negotiating modem, occasionally might see 44k, but it was rare.
We'll keep the landline as long as it is available for those reasons,
because in bad weather the cell isn't all that reliable and while we
know do have a wireless 4G connection, it also takes power...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 06:04:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
Around here Century Link is partnered with Dish but they are starting
to offer Prizm which is their name for the bundled service. You give
up your Dish service and get it all down the existing copper.
Yes, silicone filled 3 pair cat 3.
They are only using a single pair for POTS and DSL. I understood they
hook up another pair if you get TV
With the number of people ditching POTS, "pairs" is not a problem and
as I said, I think they only need 2 pair for the bundle.
They will need good copper but what they are using here is what was
installed in the 1980s when Sprint took over from United Telephone.
It looks like Century Link is trying to squeeze a little more life out
of their copper infrastructure and remain a player against comcast.
Comcast sucks to badly around here that it will not be a huge problem.
CL did have contractors working on all of the tombstones, cleaning up
bad splices and generally freshening up the installations before they
rolled out Prizm here but it is still the same basic copper.
I understand if the telco still has old pulp cable on the poles and
you are seeing nitrogen bottles along the road, they are not likely to
be able to support DSL but I think most places were upgraded sometime
in the last 5 decades.
On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-5, email@example.com wrote:
Which isn't the typical installed base of copper POTS that
has been there for 50 years in many cases. I'm curious as to when
and why they installed that? If they had to bury it, install it,
etc, why would any company lay that instead of fiber, coax, that
could give 100X the bandwidth?
If you get TV through a twisted pair, where is the channel selection done?
Must be at the far end. You couldn't possibly put all the channels that
customers want today on one wire, like is done with cable.
There you have the dual edge sword. People are ditching POTS where they can and
moving to better solutions. I'll bet in many of those cases, the DSL
twisted pair offering isn't as good as the other options that are available,
so the freed up lines aren't going to do much good.
And in the rural areas we're talking about, like the OP, people aren't
ditching POTS, because it's the only local phone service.
I'll bet many rural areas they don't have gel filled twisted pair.
We don't have it here in suburban NJ. We also went through this headache
back in the late 80s, when ISDN was going to give voice plus another
64Kbit channel for data. The problem was that the transceivers had to
deal with the existing installed base of wire and it was a mess.
A lot of time was spend trying to profile it, figure out what rates
they could support across the installed base of the whole country.
The issues were that there were bridge taps,
wire gauge changes, etc that all created problems and made transmission
more difficult. I was involved
in it at that point and I don't recall anyone saying, no problem,
we have gel filled twisted pair to work with. The best compromise was
144Kbits per sec, which became the ISDN standard.
Ultimately, ISDN went nowhere. Later, as technology improved,
DSL came along, which was basically the same thing, using the
existing wire digitally, but at higher rates. Nobody replaced the
wire, the whole point was *not* to have to have better wire. So,
I'm real skeptical that much of the installed POTS wiring is gel
filled. It might be in certain locations, for whatever reason.
For example this Century cable is apparently buried. Here in
suburban NJ, it's strung on poles. Same polls tha have been
there for 50 years. In towns here, it's buried, IDK what actually
they have for wire product.
Yes, I'd agree with that assessment. Which is why I modified my
statement that *all* providers are getting out of copper to "most".
I can see it as a fit in some places, for some people, etc. I don't
see it doing much in the way of most providers moving away from copper
Apparently not if you look at all the problems with DSL. I couldn't
get it from Verizon, here in suburban NJ. And lots of people that
do get it, report slow speeds, reliability issues, etc. And I
have cable, some nearby towns also have FIOS in addition to cable,
so the Verizon copper is dying. And Verizon is seeking to get out of
copper POTS infrastructure.
Of course this might have been FDR's first step at taking over the electric
service for the entire country, which he tried to do while running the
publicly owned utilities into bankruptcy. Thankfully, we have checks and
On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 09:03:28 -0800 (PST), trader_4
Sprint did it in the 80s when they bought "dial tone" from United
Telephone. It is all underground.,.
I am not sure how they do it but it is done on the box you get from
CL. I imagine you are right that they only send the channels you are
watching but it supports at least 5 channels at a time. (4 ST boxes
and the DVR)
They came out and pitched it to me but I wasn't happy with the way the
boxes worked so I didn't bite. I actually did sign up but I canceled
when I figured out they had lied to me about the DVR.
That is the situation here. I can get Comcast that has internet speeds
2-3x what I get from DSL but it is down so much I was not interested
in it. Comcast is also horrible when it comes to fixing your
Verizon is committed to FIOS but you do not have to look hard to find
people who hate it. It all gets back to these companies wanting to
make money and have the absolute minimum number of employees.
I would not be surprised if Verizon spun off all of it's land based
communication and went totally wireless, contracting out the fiber
backbone to the towers.
Not that I'm aware.
I have CL w/ DSL. I don't subscribe to TV, but have a Roku that gives
me lotsa stuff (netflix, youtube, etc). As far as I'm aware, I'm
still on a single twisted pair (POTS). I get an actual 1.2M per
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