Are Circuit Breakers Over-rated?

[Jeffy3]

That is exactly what it is. And the electrician was a cousin of my friend and he wasn't looking to do work that he didn't feel was needed.

[Jules]

Nah, you cut it open and solder a bit of wire across the break.

(Sad to say, I've seen it done - and the aftermath. But only with consumer electronics luckily)

[Pete C.]

The places I'm familiar with, an electrical permit and inspection by the local building inspector are what is required. Nowhere is there a requirement for a licensed electrician, and the utility does not charge for the disconnect or reconnect.

[Pete C.]

Where do you find the necessary AFCI fuses for the bedroom circuits?

[gfretwell]

In that mythical "device" type AFCI that 210.12(B) ex1 alludes to.

... and that is virtually all receptacles now.

[RicodJour]

Well, it's different around here. It's exactly the reverse, except you could "forget" to pull a building permit and not get popped. The electric company is quite specific in their requirements.

4.2 CHANGE OF SERVICE PROCEDURES In recognition of the timing and coordination problems involved in the disconnect and reconnect of simple single phase residential overhead services, where modifications or upgrading of existing service entrances are involved, the procedure known as LIPA CONNECTS is to be used. The purpose of LIPA CONNECTS is to minimize the licensed electrical contractor=92s time and effort while affording them a measure of protection by authorization to handle specific LIPA facilities without fear of prosecution for tampering or diversion of current. It will also provide the LIPA with a control mechanism and minimize the estimating of unmetered consumption (Forms in front of book).

It is entirely possible that your power company has a requirement that is not enforced by your local building department, and thus you might not be aware of it.

R

[Jon Danniken]

Ah, gotcha, that makes more sense now.

Jon

[John Grabowski]

*Circuit breakers are more convenient to reset than fuses. You may have limited space for additional electrical circuits. You can install ground fault or arc fault protection in a circuit breaker panel. The perception that the electrical system is old and faulty by potential buyers. Even if you have no immediate plans to sell, at some point your house will be put on the market if not by you then your heirs. If no improvements have been made over the years the property may just be purchased for land value only and a new house will be erected.

A house built in the fifties may not have a grounded system of wiring. Two prong receptacles are very outdated.

[hrhofmann]

I replaced the only fuse in my 50 year old house with a pushbuttton fuse. It is in a little box on the power feed to my furnace, right above the actual furnace. My local hardware store had pushbutton plug- in breakers to replace various size fuses. But, I agree that unles you are planning to sell your house, I would leave the fuses alone, they are safer in my opinion.

[BQ340]

Is/was there ever a fusebox that was larger than a 60 amp main?

If it is working now & sized properly then it shouldnt be an issue till you sell the house.

MikeB

[HeyBub]

So true. I keep overlooking some (most?) live in benighted areas.

In my town, the sequence is:

• Call the power company to remove the meter seal. They will respond within six hours.

• Do your stuff*

• Call the power company to return and restore the seal. They will respond within twelve hours.

-------

• No permits, inspections, plans, approvals, or licensed anybody are required.

[Pete C.]

AFCI, not GFCI.

210.12(b) clearly states an AFCI circuit breaker listed to provide protection to the *entire branch circuit*. A receptacle could never fill that requirement.

[HeyBub]

Sorry I set you off.

First, I started my post with "An ALTERNATIVE is..."

Second, I suggested a 200 Amp service because the incremental cost between that and a 60 Amp or 100 Amp service is trivial. Might as well have excess capacity.

Third, it's NOT dangerous. Or complicated. Union people do it every day.

Fourth, while you are correct that I have no idea as to the OPs capabilities, I presumed his hand would fit a screwdriver (which is the extent of the skill-set that's required). If I erred in this assumption, I apologize.

It IS up my alley inasmuch as I've done it. The first one I did, I had no experience but the job was as straightforward as changing a tire: cut the power, remove the old apparatus, install the new, turn the power back on and see if anything smokes. It took me and my son about five hours, what with frequent beer breaks and all.

(Just kidding about the booze - although we DID have a beer when we finished; sort of a celebration in saving about $1000 over what an electrical company bid.)

[John Grabowski]

*I have a customer with a Cutler Hammer circuit breaker panel that has 200 amp fuses as the main.

[Pete C.]

I've done 8 or 9 panel replacement / upgrades so far, and in most cases it is indeed quite easy. I've also done a quick panel upgrade 101 class for a friend who subsequently replaced his panel without any issues.

It certainly isn't for everyone, but most people with some mechanical aptitude and ability to read and comprehend reference material can do it just fine.

Hmm, I think those qualification excluded 95% of the last couple generations...

[Pete C.]

Interesting, is it actual 200A main fuses in the breaker panel, or is it a 200A fused disconnect feeding a main lug breaker panel?

[Stormin Mormon]

Overall, I'd stay with the fuses, unless some big reason to upgrade. Undecided? Maybe. I'll get back to you on that.

[Eric in North TX]

I grew up in a house with a fuse box, and it function just fine. The exception being that my dad was a cabinet maker with a full shop in the basement, so an occasional blown fuse was normal, and expected. The main thing that made breaker boxes more desirable was the time you blow more fuses than expected and have to trudge out to get more. Murphy's law dictates that; it will only happen when it is raining or snowing and after hours of most places that sell such.

[gfretwell]

My house in Md built in 1971 has a 200a fuse panel. It was installed with type S fuses.

[gfretwell]

Read it again, particularly exception 1 Where does it say "breaker"? Ex 1 says essentially You can come off your fuse panel in a metal raceway to a box with a device type AFCI (similar to the device GFCI) then on to your protected circuits.

from the book;

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. (A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). A device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected. (B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit. FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters. FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72®-2007, National Fire Alarm Code®, for information related to secondary power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in dwelling units. FPN No. 3: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power-supply requirements for fire alarm systems. Exception No. 1: Where RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118 using metal outlet and junction boxes is installed for the portion of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install a combination AFCI at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.