anyone know VA plumbing code?

[N8N]

Nothing seems to be easy anymore...

So today my new fridge was delivered. I wasn't home, but SWMBO was - apparently everything went smoothly other than that a) they didn't want to bring it in through the back door, because they would have had to take the doors off, so they brought it through the front door instead - which would have been fine, except there was a large shelf in the way that we hadn't moved, because we figured it'd be easier to just take the doors off and bring it in the back and b) the installers refused to hook up the water supply because they stated that the "supply kit" that I bought at That Orange-Colored Store was not compliant with state plumbing code as it used plastic tubing, which was Not Allowed, it had to be copper.

OK, so HD is selling non-code-compliant products labeled for a specific purpose? Somehow I'm not surprised... Is this actually the case? I found the code online and skimmed a few sections but I didn't find anything that pertained directly to my situation.

So I figure since now SWMBO thinks that my installation is substandard and unacceptable, I should just "fix" it since after all a few feet of

1/4" copper shouldn't be that expensive, yes? Ran down to Lowe's over lunch and went over to the plumbing section. Not a scrap of copper to be seen, save for in the "icemaker installation kit" bin, where there were two rolls of 1/4" copper tubing (and no installation kits,) clearly someone had been in there and stolen the saddle valves, ferrules, nuts, etc. and just left the tube. No packaging, no SKU, no bar code, etc. So I grab one and corner the plumbing guy who appears to be very confused. Give up, take over to Customer Service. Explain to them that I just want to buy this tubing (along with the two baggies of ferrules and nuts that I laid on the counter next to it) can you please find out what you'd be willing to sell it for, this causes a huge flurry of confusion. Finally after 15 minutes of paging the plumbing guy, who never returned their calls, the girl behind the counter says "can you find what kit this is a part of, and see if you can buy this at a discount because pieces are missing?" I answer "that's why I'm here! that's exactly what I want to do!" More phone calls. Finally I leave, sans tubing, having wasted my whole lunch hour (and truth be told, a few more minutes - plus 10 min. looking at the plumbing code and another 3-4 typing this up to share with you all, because I'm so incredulous that something so simple could be so difficult) on this exercise in frustration.

So...

can anyone tell me if the installer was telling the truth, or was he just pissed because of having to move the shelf and figured that not hooking up the water line made up for it?

nate

PS - usually I consider Lowe's to be vastly superior to HD, but in this instance, I'm wondering if everyone just sucks. PPS - I'm really hungry right now. Please send food.

[Don Phillipson]

You are a taxpayer, no? Just consult (on-line?) the state plumbing code. (It is not on line here but there is no charge to see it at the building permits office at city hall.)

[gpsman]

I'd have looked around the bin where I picked it up to find an SKU and just remembered it. If it's too hard to remember and you don't have a pen, you can punch the code into a text message on your cell phone or use its voice recorder. -----

- gpsman

[Nate Nagel]

I found the code online, but couldn't find anything pertaining to either a) installation of fridges with icemakers/water dispensers or b) a blanket prohibition of semi-rigid plastic tubing.

really doesn't matter at this point... stopped at the Orange-Colored Store on the way home from work; found a coil of copper and some 1/4" coax clips (I felt less good about leaving copper completely unsupported since it's much more rigid and also work hardens if it's flexed too much) it's already installed and operational.

nate

[gfretwell]

One of those braided hoses is the way to go. It is better than copper tube and a whole lot better than the white nylon tube.

[Nate Nagel]

I didn't want to use those because the copper is coming up through the floor from below; the hole required to pass a braided hose would be much larger. I thought briefly about putting a box in the wall for a stop valve and hard plumbing it from the basement but upon investigating found it impossible. Literally, not just "it's really hard so I 'can't' do it" but "one wall is completely full of electrical and ductwork, and the other wall is the exterior wall which is just plaster over masonry." So I have a saddle valve above the basement ceiling (directly under the fridge) and the copper tubing comes up through the floor in the corner behind the fridge.

nate

[Nate Nagel]

I meant to add, if I ever get a wild hair up my butt to do plumbing upgrades, I will replace the saddle valve with a tee and proper stop valve or ball valve, I just was in a hurry to get things ready for the fridge to be installed and didn't want to shut the water off to the house. It's kind of hard to clean brushes/rollers not to mention the kitchen floor or even yourself with the water shut off :) But it'll still be above the basement ceiling due to space constraints...

nate

[cshenk]

"N8N" wrote

Hi Nate. I seriously doubt the fridge install guys would find taking doors off hinges then rehanging them easier than just moving a shelf. Then again, I don't know the layout of your house.

Grin, I believe I know the answer. Code used to allow flex tube plastic. I do not know why it changed but believe it has in fact changed because it was mentioned when we replaced a fridge. A long ago one had flex tube (still hanging there at the back wall covered by the fridge). The installers mentioned they were not allowed to hook up to it then grinned as my unit was one with no need for it. They said I could 'DIY' if I got the icemaker addition for mine and showed me where the plug was.

I live in VA too.

[Nate Nagel]

I meant the doors of the fridge - generally it's just a couple machine screws.

Thanks, good to know. I won't buy the plastic again. Of course, I hope not to have to do this job again - not that it was difficult, but that would imply that I'd have moved. (unless I convert the garage loft into living space, then I might put a fridge out there too)

nate

[Ed Pawlowski]

Plastic tubing can burst with no warning. Mine developed a leak after about

8 or 10 years.

[cshenk]

Ah! Ok. The way it was worded I thought the back door of the house ;-)

I think I recall why the code changed too? Something I stumbled across and not really sure where. Flex tube freezes just as fast as copper but copper you can put a pipe heater on.

It might have been a washing machine install come to think of it. I recall being asked which I needed and saying copper probably due to pipe heater. (it's on an uninsulated garage wall abutting the outside). Apparently on an inner wall, say a bathroom stackable, it can be flex but not on an outerwall? In my case, that one is obviously a copper job so I can run a pipe heater on it.

[cshenk]

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

Mine's from the sink area and over the 'lowered ceiling' (stupid construction I know) so we capped it off totally at the sink outlet. Just never bothered to snake the rest back. It's not visible at all unless you lift ceiling tiles or remove the fridge. Just hangs loose under the sink where a copper cap blocks where it would have fed from.

[Nate Nagel]

I just figured it would be appropriate for a fridge with icemaker, seeing as it theoretically gets pulled out for cleaning every year. (that, and that's what was on the shelf.) I didn't actually *know* which was better, which is why I asked.

should the copper be replaced every x years then due to the possibility of hardening/fatigue etc.? If so, what's "x"?

nate

[Steve Daniels]

On Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:49:01 -0400, against all advice, something compelled Nate Nagel , to say:

I ran a 1/4" copper line over to the fridge, and then transitioned to a stainless flex line so it could move without breaking some day. I didn't look up the code before I did it. If it develops a leak, I'll use the little valve I installed to turn it off, and then fix the leak.

[SteveBell]

When you install the copper tubing, make a big loop. A *big* one, like up to the top of the refrigerator and back. That way, when you pull the fridge out, the tubing flexes all along a length of ten feet or more instead of in one spot. Loop twice if you want. The extra length gives you plenty of slack to move the machine out for the every-ten-years' cleaning all my clients seem to do.

Now somebody can argue that more feet of tubing means more points of failure. ;-)

[Tony Hwang]

Hmmm, Drinking hot or ice cold water is BAD for your health. Ever wondered what how your stomach, guts react when cold water came down? I never buy a fridge with ice maker. We always drink room temperature water coming out of under sink multi-stage filter, RO, UV light.

[JIMMIE]

You could be glad you put in copper. For some reason rodents are attracted to the plastic and like to knaw on it. I have had a mouse and a chpmunk chew up mine on two separate occasions. You may never know the trouble you have saved yourself. Where I live platic is tllegal for commercial installations but OK for home. Those damed saddle valves should be illegal too. Every 5 or 6 years I have had to replace the one formy humidifier. When I replaced my water heater I got rid of the saddle valve.

JImmie

[BQ340]

Where did that come from? I have drank thousands of gallons of both HOT coffee & also ICE cold water (flavored with barley, hops & alcohol) with no ill effects....

[Nate Nagel]

I agree re: saddle valves; i used one this time because I was in a hurry and didn't have time to shut off the water but next time I drain down the house for repairs I will replace all of them.

nate

[Nate Nagel]

yup, also you need a few ice cubes for the bourbon, and it's such a pain to fill the ice tray. Convenience is good. And whether it's good for you or not, SWMBO likes ice cold water and won't drink from the tap, so having a water filter/dispenser makes the fridge effectively larger, because now there's not that big Brita pitcher sitting in there. (I, on the other hand, don't mind tap water, but I'm not the only person using the plumbing in this house.)

nate