Advice needed on what kind of professionals I need for this job

[orangetrader]

I posted some related topics recently regarding my sewer line drainage, and based on the responses and my own research I have decided on a repair method. Now I need some advise on my next step.

My laundry drain pipe has a crack, the crack was determined by sending a flexible tube with a video cam attachment down that pipe. Then we measured the length of the tube and it was about 29" from the mouth of the standpipe to the location of the crack. The crack caused sand to be pulled into the pipe as we do laundry and water rushed into the pipe. This sand will piled up downstream where the laundry line meet up into the main line around a "bend" and clogs up the line occasionally.

The washer is located in the garage. On the opposite wall is the kitchen. The location of the crack is about 10 inches to the kitchen side where the cabinets are located. It is a single story house on a 8" concrete slab. Breaking up the tile and breaking the concrete slab in the kitchen and ripping out the cabinets will be too much work. The drain company who did the video inspection (xxx Rooter) recommend handling from the outside.

This means digging a hole from the side, and a tunnel about 6 feet in length to access the pipe, replace a section, then back fill.

I looked at the plans of the house, the concrete slab on the edge has a footing 3 feet deeper than the rest of the 8" slab. This means they have to dig three feet deep to get to the bottom, and another 4 to 5 feet for someone to access horizontally unless they are going to crawl over. That will be a 9' deep hole? I think this is lower than the water table. I asked them and they said it's not a problem. The tunnel itself will be six feet in length to get to the pipe. Also as they dig out the dirt (which is mostly sand since we are in south Florida a mile from the beach), the dirt below the slab and above the footing line will drop down, that seem like it will be a hugh pile of dirt/sand to dig out. Once the pipe can be accessed, it seems it will be straight forward to fix the actual pipe.

One question I have is after the pipe is fixed, how can they put the dirt back in, especially the pocket of area above the footing, there is no way to put that back right? I heard some time ago there are companies that will inject concrete mix under a slab to fill out air pockets?

and finally, what type of professional do I need to do this job which involve plumbing, trenching, excavation, tunneling, back filling... will it be a plumber? a drain rooter company, a general contractor, or some other specialists? The rooter company estimate for this is between $2500 and $3500, so this will also require permitting.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

O

[JerryMouse]

[...]

What are the ramification of rerouting the pipe, all above ground, until you get outside?

I would think it's easier to go through walls than concrete.

[orangetrader]

Thanks for the advice.

I will not be able to punch a hole in the garage because the pipe drains down and away from the garage wall. According to the plans (I got some microfilm hard copies from the city) that there is another piling / footing at the bottom along the garage/kitchen common wall. The city told me what is in the plans does not always mean it was built that way, but I would hate to open a hole in the garage slab and found a piling wall that needed to be opened up.

I also did some research on the interior sleeve. There are some companies that do that, but when I called they said this method is for larger size mains, and not for residential 3" to 4" PVC drains. They would not even bother to stay on the phone with me for more than 30 seconds to see if they can recommend some alternatives or refer me to someone else. I think I am out of luck on this one...

O

[orangetrader]

Another question I have is, if a fixed price is agreed upon, could there be additional charge when they encounter any difficulties.

For example, if they begin excavating and found a rock, or they hit water table sooner than they think, or the piling is 4' deep instead of 3', and they say to me "I know I quoted you $3000 but it will be $5000 if you want me to continue because of this..." what is the proper protocol for this sort of things? Strictly hyperthetical of course, but I want to be prepared.

O

[orangetrader]

That was one of the choices I was contemplating.

I can have an exposed PVC pipe and punch a 3" hole in the concrete block and have the pipe go outside. But once it get outside it has to go down and then I have to dig a trench to bury that PVC pipe. That trench will need to be about 30 feet long (half the length of the house) before I can make a 90 degree turn for another 5 feet in length to connect back to the line exiting the house.

The disadvantage of this problem are:

(1) There will be a section of this drain pipe outside of the house and it will look really strange.

(2) The original "broken" line is still there beneath the house, and if I don't fix this it will have to be disclosed if I sell the house, probably will make the property less attractive and will end up either turning away some buyers and even be used as a bargaining chip by potential buyers and will cost me more than the cost of fixing this.

Otherwise it would be a viable solution.

O

[Tekkie]

orangetrader posted for all of us....

I had a friend have almost this same problem happen to him. He called the local plumber who is large company (not chain nor franchise) that has the resources behind it. The one/two person shops may not be equipped to handle it. Ask neighbors for referrals.

[orangetrader]

any idea what approach they took? Would be helpful to know what they did.

The thing that scares me is all of the people I contacted who came out to inspect this, gave me a slightly different solution (which is very helpful to hear different angles) but no one said they have done it before. They all said "we can try to ..... for $xxxxx but no guarantee". So this is a lot of money for no guarantee. None of them have faced this situation before...very confusing.

O

[Joseph Meehan]

I imagine it may vary from place to place, but I would look for a general contractor or a plumber (who may sub the other functions out) I would want to be able to deal with a single contractor and not deal with the scheduling problems the occur when you deal with more than one contractor for different parts of one job.

[Gideon]

I imagine it may vary from place to place, but I would look for a general contractor or a plumber (who may sub the other functions out) I would want to be able to deal with a single contractor and not deal with the scheduling problems the occur when you deal with more than one contractor for different parts of one job.

=================

Excellent advise. It also eliminates the situation in which the homeowner gets caught in the middle of a finger-pointing pissing contest between two subs who are blaming one another over damage, delay, etc.

I would function as homeowner/general contractor only if I intended to do a significant amount of work myself and I therefore needed the flexibility of scheduling the subcontractors around my free time for my portions of the job.

Gideon

[Gideon]

Orangetrader,

I'm no expert in this area, but I seem to recall seeing advertisements for companies who can address some breaks in drainpipes by running a liner through the pipe. You may want to research a bit and see if such an approach could work for you. You lost me a bit with your descriptions of the layout for this situation, so it isn't completely clear to me if this could help in your situation. Depending upon the layout, it might be possible to punch a hole in the garage floor and install a liner from there. It is certainly worth researching such an approach. I'd start with the yellow pages and also with "Google".

You may also want to consider re-routing the utility drain in the garage. That is probably not reasonable, but it should be considered if you are talking about spending thousands. This approach is also well worth researching. Depending upon local zoning, where you live, and your terrain: there is a small chance that you could reroute the gray water from your utility drain "to daylight" or to a drywell. Violate local building codes/zoning ordinance at your own risk. :)

By the way, there is at least one company named "xxx Rooter" which seems to feel that homeowners are a limitless supply of easy money. I would be very cautious about any advise from them.

Good luck, Gideon

[Goedjn]

Not really.

[trader4]

" I also did some research on the interior sleeve. There are some companies that do that, but when I called they said this method is for larger size mains, and not for residential 3" to 4" PVC drains. They would not even bother to stay on the phone with me for more than 30 seconds to see if they can recommend some alternatives or refer me to someone else. I think I am out of luck on this one"

Instead of searching by phone, trying doing a search on the internet. I don't know where you're located, but a quick google search showed that there are companies around that will definitely do lining of residential pipes in the 3-4 inch range.

[Goedjn]

I don't understand why you can't just punch a hole in the floor of the garage, and go the 18" sideways to get to the cracked section. You'll probably have to enlarge the hole where the pipe goes through the footing, but that will just help keep the pipe from cracking again.

[CUSE]

Hi I did perform various internet search but nothing came up. I used keywords like "+lining +miami +florida +drain +residential +repair" and various other combinations and all I saw were either articles on how the trenchless technology saved money on large diameter sewer mains in this city and that city, as well as various technical publications, or manufacturers etc...I did not come across one service company that does this for residential small diameter drains. If you have any link or more effective search keywords please post.

Thanks in advance,

O

[Kathy]

Why don't you add "contractor" or "service" into your search

[CUSE]

I did but nothing came up. The closest thing I can find is this site:

which looks very promising from the description. But they are in Virginia and looks like there aren't that many of them around.

I called a few utility contractors and plumbing contractors, none of them knows about this technology and unable to refer me to someone who might provide this service locally.

Location is Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

If anyone knows of someone in south Florida that does this, I sure would appreciate a note or a post. Seems like the most painless way to do it.

Thanks in advance,

O

[orangetrader]

OK I finally located a place that will attempt a trenchless and messless solution.

They will do a video inspection of the drain. $350.00

Then they will jet the line to sweep the debris out. $400.00

Then they will insert a plastic liner inside the pipe with the equipment. The cost is determined per foot. It is $100 per foot with a minimum charge of $1500.00. If the point of the crack is 20' from the cleanout, then it will be 20'*100 = 2000'.

So totally I will be out probably $3000.00. If it works I think I prefer this over the 6' lateral trench which may weaken the support of the house, and jacking a 18"x18" hole through the 8" reinforced slab in the garage or kitchen would have been a real mess.

If anyone is interested I will post a narration of the method used. The guy told me they only did a few commercial jobs and I am the first residential and it is very new.

O