We're converting our garage into a family/game room, and we'd like to add a small bar with running water for making drinks, washing hands, etc. This new room will be a good distance from the kitchen or any water sources in the house, plus we have a concrete foundation.
Just curious, would it be feasible or recommendable to run flexable hose of some sort through the attic to this sink from the kitchen or someplace else in the house? I've seen this done with copper tubing to add water behind a fridge for an ice maker, but we're looking at going about 60 feet if we did this.
As for drainage, since this sink won't be used very much, my thought is to drain it into the yard as we have a planter just outside where the sink will be located.
I don't know about that. Ever hear of a "gray water" drain? My daughter has a relatively new house that has 2 drain systems. One is for "gray water" (just about anything other than toilets or garbage disposals) and one for "black water". In her case the black water is dumped into a septic tank while the gray water can be routed to irrigation needs or a dry well. She happens to have very sandy soil.
With all the water shortages around the country I would think they would encoiurage irrigating with grey water. I have been dumping water from the washing machine into my yard for 25 years. The mango tree loved it but hurricane Charlie killed my tree. Now it is irrigating bananas. They are going strong.
If you're in a freezing climate, running plumbing (of any kind) through the attic is a bad idea. Yes, you could heat it or otherwise try to keep it from freezing, but the consequences of a failure in that leading to a leak are pretty horrendous, so you'd want to avoid it. Yes, you can blow lines. But that is a real PITA.
If you're not in a freezing climate, running anything other than copper or fully-plumbing-rated plastic pipe thru the attic is also a bad idea. Some non-rated tubing (eg: the cheaper black PVC stuff, or some kinds of 1/4" line) aren't safe on the high end of muncipal water pressures.
As others have mentioned, grey water systems are common and legal in many places. They tend to something on the order of a buried gravel pit, where you can be pretty sure of the drainage. There is some plumbing code that discusses the requirements (in areas that permit them).
Classic drywells are a pit to below the frost level, filled with gravel, and topped with topsoil. The drain pipe ends in the gravel.
It's common with rural homes that have had additions upon additions, where, for example, they find it to be extremely inconvenient to get the clothes washer drain to the septic system. A friend has a fully permitted/approved drywell for that purpose.
You don't need much for a grey water disposal system. If they're permitted...
Putting the end of the drain hose in a flower pot or planter is not a good idea. You might kill the plants, and/or attract things like wasps or other undesirables depending on what you pour down the sink.
I put in a sink (made out of an old stainless steel bowl) into our detached garage (used as a workshop) that puts its drain into a cutout in the slab. The cutout exposes a portion of the gravel base that has been excavated and topped up with gravel to be about 18" worth of gravel.
Putting a lot of water or anything but water into that would be bad. Putting water into it during the winter would be bad.
It's really only for emergency or "I need a glass of water" uses. Only small amounts of water and only rarely very small amounts of soap go down its drain - and not frequently at that. Nothing else. The supply line (cold only) to the garage is shut off and blown during winter.
[The water supply is actually a tap off the irrigation system running off our regular well water. On the house side of the anti-siphon valves. The main line is buried CSA-rated 1/2" PVC black tubing (the "good stuff"). Costs more than double the regular "utility grade" tubing.]
Our garage drain is probably not adequate for the OP's purposes (which could be daily use), but it is for mine. My use is no worse on the gravel than naturally occuring ground water movement.
Nope. Sprink a leak and you will cause massive ceiling damage. You have water pressure issues from the main line and may have temperature problems depending on where you are.
Make sure that's legal in your area (some are, some are not).
I have a possible easier answer if this is really a low use water need.
Did you consider just using a sort of water cooler type device with a small tap over a 'sink'? This could be as simple as one of the bigger (5g or so) bottles that sits on a ledge over the sink with a tap at the bottom you twist to let out some water, or the bigger bottles you might see in an office building.
It may not be as fancy as you were thinking of, and yes you have to refill the bottles (can use tap water if you want), but I have a neighbor with a system like that in his back shed.
Ths is what he did: The shed isnt attached to the house and he uses it for car projects and such. He has electricity but no water. Because he is often cleaning car grease and such off his hands, he has one big bottle in a top cabinet with a spigot that sticks out from a cabinet above, and this is over a small sink with a cabinet below. Inside the cabinet below, is another bigger bottle (top cut mostly off) to catch it all. He just dunks a piece of cutoff garden hose in the bottom one, tucks a thumb over one end to hold the water in and puts that end in a bucket to let it drain to the bucket. He takes the bucket to inside (our area doesnt allow greywater dumping and his had solvents for grease anyways) and dumps it to the city sewer line.
Because he is older and can not lift much, the bucket is smaller and takes about 3 drainings to get the lower larger bottle empty. The upper 'feed' bottle is deliberately smaller so he never accidently overloads the lower 'drain' one. When the top one is near empty, he just drains the lower one, then refills the top one. In his case, refills with an exterior hose which is about 10 feet away on the back of his house.
Because he has nice little cabinets over the top bottle and bottom one (a bathroom sink enclosure at bottom, a matching bathroom wall cabinet at top with a hole for the spigot), it actually looks very nice. I am not sure exacly, but the top feed bottle looks like 5gallons, and the bottom one might have been 10 before he cut the top down a bit to make putting the hose in easier. It still holds more than 5G.
If there are no 'grey water' resitrctions where you are, you could just run a hose from the bottom of the sink to outside as you were thinking, and dispense with the need to empty a 'drain bucket'.
Anything useful in that for your needs?
If it also helps, he was worried about the weight of the 'feed bottle' on top so the cabinet was placed right between studs and reinforced with more
2x4 'H' ' 'jointed' between. He probably over did the bracing needed but it only took about 1/2 hour to add the extra wood to make sure. Hope I used the right terms there for the 'H' joint.
| | | | |-------| | | | |-------| | | | | | | S I N K TOP (BOTTOM CABINET)
If I did that simple drawing right, you'll see 2 studs, with 2 crossbars added then a 2x4 running between the studs butted up to the 2 crossbars. The 2x4 between the studs, runs to the cement floor behind the sink cabinet.
Grin, even if this wasnt what 'you' needed, it may help another and was fun to type. I think my neighbor quite inventive there!
Look for PEX plumbing at your local building center. It is flexible, it can be pulled just like you pull wire, and it is nearly very tough stuff.
One trick that I have seen for a low volume drain is to leave the drain pipe cut off about a foot under the sink, then put some kind of container under there to catch and store the drain water. For example, an empty water jug of the type that they use for water delivery would be ideal. Just remember to dump it every so often.
PEX pipe - a 3/8" 100' roll will run you about $25 or $30 bucks. PEX can take freezing pretty damn well. The amount of water in a 3/8" pipe won't expand enough to burst the pipe so you only have to worry about the fittings.
Sharkbite fittings - Google 'em. You'll need to T into the existing line and definitely install a shut off valve inside the house.
As far as the drain water, run it into a planter on the other side of the garage wall.
The conern of draining gray water from the sink into the yard isn't an issue in my area, this will be a very small amount of water mainly from washing hands after coming indoors, drink of water, coffee maker, etc... small items. We do have a planter outside the garage which this sink will drain into.
As for the water source, I did run across PEX pipe, which I'm thinking of using. I'm not sure exactly where to tie it into the house water system, but whether from an inside source or tieing into the outside fossett, I'll probably need to get a plumber involved. We live in Central Texas where it freezes only a hand full of times each year, and no freeze lasting more then a day or so. PEX pipe will probably do the job quite well :)
Pride of place in the front window of some British homes of the 1920s was a large plant in a brass pot. Often an Aspidistra*. The front room was often used for entertaining, beer of variable quality was often served. Aspidistras don't like stale beer. They wilt! They get 'hung-over' literally. PS. * Look up Gracie Fields and "The biggest Aspidistra in the world".
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