Accidental use of water and water company?

[trader4]

A buddy of mine was away for a week and returned to find that the water heater in his rented condo had sprung a major leak. He said it was running about like half of a wide open sink faucet rate. The friggin thing was about 23 years old. I remember seeing the label on it, how the area around the pipe connections looked corroded, etc. I warned him about it and told him to make sure he shut off the water when he was away on trips, but obviously, he didn't.

Good news is that the water was handled by the sump pump. Bad news is a lot of water may have been billed. Not sure about the gas, as he shut the thing off without finding out if the thing had been fired up. The water coming out was cold, but at that flow rate, it could just be that it couldn't heat it fast enough. He did say he didn't hear it running. I'm hoping the water put the pilot out, but on the other hand, from where it was leaking, it sounds like it was the anode rod fitting area at the top of the tank that went.

Just wondering, does anyone have any experience in what happens with the water or gas company in a case like this. Do they expect full payment for the water/gas? Or if you can show it was an accident do they negotiate or give you a break?

Also, what are views on the landlord's responsibility for paying for the water/gas if the utility company does not? In the general case, where it just happens to say a reasonably new water heater, it would seem to me this is a grey area as to whether the landlord would be responsible to pay for water. In the case of a 20+ year old water heater, I think he has a much better case, as it's well known that these things usually fail long before that, so it looks like a case for negligence could be made.

[RicodJour]

The major causative factor was your friend ignoring your advice and warning. There's the negligence for you. The landlord may or may not have been aware of the age and condition of the water heater. Unless your friend sent a letter to the landlord alerting him to the heater's imminent demise, then expecting the landlord to rollover on the gas/water bill is highly unrelaistic. He's already facing a larger than usual monthly cost in replacing the water heater and probably won't take kindly to be asked to spring for more money to cover utility bills.

The gas and water companies have no role in this. If you consume, you pay.

This is one of those situations where the tenant escaped a bullet. Expecting to be reimbursed for the bullet is ridiculous. I wouldn't be stoking the fire for compensation from the landlord or utility companies, but rather pointing out the tenant's role and ultimate responsibility. Throw in a "I told you so." or three so they learn something and will listen to you next time.

R

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Of course they want full payment. It went through the meter so you pay. If you don't pay, everyone else pays a little more to make up the difference.

If , at the end of the week, your employer said he really didn't need what you did on Tuesday, would you accept that he won't pay you?

[Abe]

Not so quick Ed. In my area, the water district provides partial relief if the water usage was found to be caused by a leak, and within the next billing cycle you provide proof (receipts) of repair.

In my case, I had the main going from the meter to my house spring a leak caused by a rock that had, over time, finally punctured the line. I got an astronomical bill. I immediately called a good plumber, who located and repaired the leak. I then submitted the correct paperwork to the water district, and on the next bill, they gave me 50% relief for the excess water usage, calculated by comparing the previous year usage for the same billing cycle to the current year.

[Grandpa]

Never know what you can get unless you ask. Contact the utility companies for their policy for such events. They should have one. Also discuss it with the landlord. The only real people with answers here are the utility companies and the landlord. Ask them.

[Bart Byers]

In my town, water meters read like odometers. The meter reader is competent and reliable. The retired couple across the street used about

2500 gallons per month. They were thrifty and sensible. They would not water their lawn or even their shrubs.

One month they were billed for something like 15,000 gallons. They couldn't account for it. They would certainly have heard that much water running in the house, such as in a stuck toilet. It was a drought. I'd been over there frequently and would have noticed wet ground if a hose had been left on.

They had to pay. All bills before and after were normal. Other people in town have had the same experience. What could cause it?

[Oren]

The person "billed" for the account will be the one to pay. When I had tenants, the lease specifically indicated they paid all utilities and those accounts were in their names. Some things like garbage pick up and association fees could not be placed in the tenant name, but it was written in the lease that they pay them.

I always had an emergency fund for big items, like a broken AC, water heater, etc. Tenants, by the lease were to notify me if any broke..

I think the landlord should fix the water heater as he has a vested interest keeping property in good shape.

I had one leak and guess I lost about 500 gallons, just looking at the bill that I paid. A neighbor lost somewhere close to 5,000 gallons due to a main from the meter to the house that broke from a tree root. The builder fixed the water line, I think he paid the water.

Oren

[BobK207]

Having been a landlord........I'd have to agree with R & Edwin except for maybe the fact that the landlord (IMO) should know the age & condition of his equipment.

That said, you did warn your friend about the w/h AND gave him a preventative measure. It's one of those unfortunate situations....he would have probably caught the leak had he been in town.

I figure at 5 gpm & $1.50 per 748 gallons he's got about $100 water bill coming (could be as much as $200 depending on water rates or less if my flow rate guess is high)

Depending on the heating capacity (BTU / hr) of the w/h , nat gas rates in his area & whether the pilot stayed lit......my guess is that the guess bill is going to be an extra $75.

To quote my former 85 year old neighbor......"a cheap lesson; nobody got hurt, nothing got ruined".

If the sump pump had failed to keep up & he had expensive stuff down there, the whole situation could have been a lot worse.....$$$$'s.

He should consider himself lucky & listen to his knowledgable friend.

Maybe his insurance MIGHT cover his ultility loss?

cheers Bob

[trader4]

Thanks, Abe, that's what I was looking for, some real world actual experience, as opposed to "it's your own fault, what do u expect, yaddda yaddda yaddda.

[trader4]

So, the tenant is now the one responsible for making sure the building structure and utilities are properly maintained? And it's there fault if something that is way beyond it's expected service life fails and damage results? That's a new concept. The place passed a CO inspection. Should they then hire a home inspector to review everything, give opinions and document everything that they find wrong? And how would the typical landlord react to that?

Amazing that you have more empathy for the landlord who has to pay for a new water heater after 23 years, than the tenant who was not in control of deciding when to replace it.

I don't think it's at all ridiculous for the tenant to be looking for reimbursement. In fact, I think if it went to small claims, the tenant would have a pretty good case.

[RicodJour]

Why are you assuming my advice on the utility company reaction isn't actual experience?

And it was the tenant's fault. When you're made aware of a potentially damaging situation, and you ignore it, you've bought the situation. Now obviously the landlord and utility companies won't know that you explicitly warned the tenant about the water heater, but you and the tenant do. Now it shifts from a question of home repair into the area of ethics.

You're looking at a couple or three hundred bucks in utility bills. And you and/or the tenant is looking for a way to slide out of this one for free.

Abe's situation was completely different. It was a hidden condition where a rock pierced a buried water line. Ask Abe if he would have ignored an ancient water heater after he had been warned about its inevitable demise.

Personally, I'd be thanking the landlord for having a sump pump that was in place and working.

R

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The yaddda yaddda yaddda I gave you was based on a 60,000 gallon use of water over the norm. The water department did come back to verify the reading since it was unusual, but they sent the bill and we had to pay it.

If you want to come to Uxbridge MA, I'll show you the meter and you can verify the readings and bill.

[BobK207]

This whole situation is not exactly cut & dried;

the water heater was old, the landlord did or should have know it's age & conditionm the CO inspection should have flagged the w/h your friend should have listened to you about turing the water off your firend could have had someone house sit or at least do a walk through your friend is in physical posession of the property; the eyes & ears on site, he had material knowledge of a potential problem; information not given to the landlord

like R said, this has slide over to the area of ethics since there conditon was recognized.

maybe someone's insurance can cover it or maybe the two parties can split the extra bills

bottom line, you discovered a potential problem (like a smoldering fire? but not as bad) & your friend choose not to act or pass on that information; in the legal world I believe this is call contingent liabiltiy.........no one (excpet for you) in this situation has entirely clean hands, the truth be told.

cheers Bob

[Abe]

You're quite right, mine was a completely different situation, and I'm not at all clear that it applies here. Whatever the cause of the leak, however, there might be some relief available for the OP, and it's at least worth looking into. All he has to lose is a phone call.

[Oren]

Don't like responses you get here - to bad. My comments were real world. I know the difference in a "new smiling tenant" and one that later shows "true colors".

Oren

[Les]

My city charges for sewer based on the gallons of water consumed. They assume a certain amount of water usage goes down the sewer in the summer months. The rest of the water bill does not have the sewer charge. Not sure if they have their own fixed numbers or if they use your average water usage. In the summer months this "rate reduction" is automatic. Likewise, if you tell them you will be filling your swimming pool, you can provide the before and after water meter readings and they will charge you only for the water (not sewer). The swimming pool example is first-hand from my neighbor.

[trader4]

What the hell are you talking about now? A new smiling tenant and one that shows true colors? It was the landlord's water heater that sprang a leak and caused the problem. I've seen plenty of cases in small claims where a tenant had property damaged do to a pipe breaking. And in just about every case, the landlord wound up responsible and had to pay for the damages. Or are you the kind of landlord that doesn't replace a 23 year old water heater and then says it's all the tenants fault?

[trader4]

Wow, that's big of you. You THINK the landlord should fix the water heater? As opposed to doing what? Some great landlord you must be.

PS: Just because the lease says the tenant pays the utilities doesn't absolve the landlord from winding up having to pay in small claims, because the issue obviously is that the tenant would not have incurred this expense had the landlords 23 year old water heater failed.

Oh my! The builder paid? Why would he ever do that instead of the homeowner paying?

[mm]

So what happened that took 60,000 gallons?

[spamTHISbrp]

revenue enhancement.

D