A fluorescent bulb; replacing an incandescent.

[Terry]

Recently attracted by the low price ($2.99) for a single fluorescent (screw in replacement for a regular lamp/bulb) package I decided to try one in the outside fixture over our front door. Previously I had only seen them in packages of two ranging in price from $10 to $19. The package claims such things as "Uses 15 watts but gives as much light as

75 watts". (Not that I've ever seen a 75 watt bulb AFIK). I've understood that these 'fluorescents' last longest and work best when left on continuously. Since our outdoor light is usually on all night it seemed like good bet! And might save some electricity. So I removed the 'long life' incandescent, which I understand is basically a 130 volt bulb running on 115 volts? That lighting circuit is served from a circuit breaker sub-panel next to the kitchen at one end of the house. Changing the lamp requires the use of a step ladder; so in the current winter weather the idea of a long life bulb was also attractive! The results were disappointing to say the least. Even after an hour or so when the lamp/bulb had warmed up the light out put was low; less, I estimated than a cheap 40 watt incandescent. The colour of the light was poor; a sort of washed out white. The lamp is also physically longer so it won't fit in some fixtures unless one were to modify them. However; and the main reason for posting this here, is that it caused significant radio interference to the bedside radio some 50 feet away plugged into a wall socket fed from a completely separate circuit from the main circuit breaker panel. The interference was not sufficient to interfere with the local broadcast stations some miles away, when tuned exactly to a station; but if the orientation of the radio with its built in antenna was changed interference was apparent on a number of frequencies particularly in the low end of the AM 'Broadcast Band' e.g. around 600 to 900 kilohertz. Unfortunately I discarded the package, but I'm pretty sure it was labeled "Complies with UL and CSA (Canadian Standards Association)". I intend to go back to the store and get the details from an identical package. Unless I happened to buy the one defective unit bought randomly, in a batch, it seems strange that a device that radiates such noticeable interference should be sold in North America. Anyone have similar experience? And maybe this comment may avoid some unintentional RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). Cheers. Terry.

[Toller]

You shouldn't use them outside unless they mention it on the label. Some can't take cold. Seeing your .ca, that seems like it might be your problem.

Some are real crap and don't last as long as they should, but I have never had a problem with them like you describe, and I have them all over my house. I even have two in outside fixtures at my cottage, but they are only on in the summer.

[Hagstar]

Many fluorescents work dimly and poorly in cold temperatures. Halogen would be best for you.

You haven't? It's the size I use most commonly- they are everywhere. And many fluorescents produce lots of RFI.

John H.

[Des Perado]

Yeah, they interfere with my AM radio too. While they are SOLD in North America, the fluorescent bulbs are NOT MADE in North America. Perhaps that accounts for the interference problem. In a situation like yours where you leave the light on all night, I would go back to a standard bulb. Des

[Phil Nelson]

About a year ago, I used compact flourescents to replace four incandescent bulbs in a bank of lights directly over my workbench. I assumed that they would create some interference, but I haven't noticed any problems at all, either for radio or TV reception in the workshop. Perhaps the brand & type used makes some difference -- there seem to be quite a few flavors available at this time.

Regards,

Phil

[George E. Cawthon]

I've bought 13W lamps that say they are the equivalent of

60W, so 15W lamps equivalent to 75W sounds about right. However, the claims are high. It use to be that fluorescent lamps provide the same light output as incandescent lamps with 4 times the wattage. In my experience that is still true. My 13 W lamps were dimmer than a 60 W incandescent and I would say it is close to a 50W incandescent light output. If your 15W lamp is equivalent to only a 40W incandescent, then it is a very poor lamp.

I was very pleased with the color of mine which was a little warm as I generally dislike fluorescent lights. However, they will not work in a high heat fixture such as parallel arm desk lamps with a closed funnel type of reflector. I put one in and after a few weeks it sputtered and the base burned up. It seems to me that the best application is fixtures where the base is down. They worked well in bathroom horizontal fixture and in an outside fixture, but my wife did not like the limited light output and a larger fluorescent would not fit, so I took them out.

The continuous on idea is just the remnants of an old fiction. When fluorescents first came out we were told that it was much better to leave them on and not switch them on and off if you were coming back into the room in an hour or two. It wasn't correct then and it isn't correct now from an economic point. The current recommendation is anything under a 10 minute interval, you should leave them on.

I didn't find any RFI from my bulbs when they were installed. I just tested one of them again at the bottom of the AM dial. There is hum there, probably from my computer, but turning the bulb on and off made no difference and the bulb was only 2 feet from the radio.

[Michael Daly]

I'm tempted to say you got what you paid for. I use CFLs almost exclusively and haven't had problems as you describe. No radio interference, reasonably bright (though not as bright as they claim*) etc.

The ones I use outdoors are rated to -29C. If yours are indoor CFLs, then they will perform poorly in the cold.

I've only used the more expensive types, usually bought on sale. I've never seen any at $2.99 - I pay about $8-$10 apiece.

You can find some that are not much larger than a conventional bulb - they are the spiral tube type. Check the packaging carefully to see if it's rated for cold temps. I haven't been disappointed with CFLs in general, though I have come across a dud once.

Mike

*I downplay the wattage ratings a bit. I'd say they are about 20-25% less bright than claimed. I think that the colour spectrum output probably has an effect on apparent brightness compared to what they measure. CFL and incandescent aren't the same colour.

[Michael A. Terrell]

I saw some at the dollar store for a buck.

[Mark Oppat]

[Hound Dog]

Been using them for several years. The only one I had any problems with at all was one that was from some unknown company, and cost much less than what the others did.

As some one else on this thread mentioned, I guess you get what you pay for.

Hound Dog

[Richard Steinfeld]

I have been using compact fluorescent bulbs for over 16 years. I've found that many of the "off-brand" bulbs are junky: I've experienced premature burnout, whining bulbs (maddening, like a mosquito), dreadful light color (someone mentioned the Ikea bulbs), and poor light output. Most will not deliver the long life that the claims imply. They tend to fail due to inabilty to dissipate heat (electronics in sealed bases) and the bulbs just wear out. These days, I buy them really cheap because of the failure/high cost issue. With rebates, I've even gotten them for less than a buck each.

My solution lately is to buy the Feit brand in bulk at Costco. I pay more of a Chinese price for a Chinese lightbulb. When more than half the bulbs are shot, I take the entire package back to Costco for a refund. That's their policy where I live for multiple items in one package. This is how I deal with premature bulb failures nowadays.

Most of the recent bulbs are more efficient than the former ones. Those came on full. The new ones come up to full brightness slowly, giving full candelpowers in about one or two minutes. I've used them successfully in outdoor fixtures, left on continuously. Dampness doesn't seem to bother them since they're moderately-well sealed (but there's a price for this). I can't say how they work in really cold weather because it almost never gets down to freezing here.

As far as RFI goes, I don't listen to AM radio, so I can't comment. On FM and TV, there's little or no interfereance from the bulbs I've used. You may have noticed the FCC statement on many products in recent years, "...must accept interference." Whatever was the person who wrote those words smoking? What was the supervisor smoking?

We're still paying Enronesque electric rates here in California. Our Administration has not seen fit, so far, to get our money back for us. I wonder why. When the electric rates tripled in San Diego, people raced to buy the compact fluorescent bulbs: I saw them everywhere.

Richard

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[William Sommerwerck]

It's called an Edison base. Anyone in an antique-radio group should know this. <grin>

[Robert Casey]

My local power company Pubic Service Electric and Gas and the NJ EPA(?) has been subsidivising(sp) CFLs lately. Final cost around a buck or two. And no significant RFI.

[HA HA Budys Here]

Bought 4 cases of 6 "R-30" at the Borg for 5.00 a case minus a 2.00 utility rebate. (These bulbe were on closeout.) I replaced some hi-hat bulbs with no RF inteference at all, however, you have to change the dimmer back to a switch CFs don't work on dimmers even when only used at full power.

Next I'm buying (seen at Cosco as well) a few packs of 3 Par40 replacements but they're around 15.00 for 3 bulbs. Seen them in use on a home near me and they look just as bright as a 150 watt flood.

[cornytheclown]

After the election I heard talk that your pal Arnold was not going to try and reclaim any of the money that was bled from the state from the energy companies as he thought it would do no good toward the state moving forward or something....Im sure a google search would turn up more but the gist of it is that the toimenator isnt going to a thing about it.....

As for "screw in" flourescents.....had my hands on a couple at Home Cheapo a while back but put them back, think they were 8.00 each.......but I still want to try them. Think I'll go to an electrical supply house where I know they will be cheaper. I would like to try one in my desk lamp and my above sink bathroom fixture.

[Scott W. Harvey]

I have these exclusively in my home, and have found that the life of these things has almost nothing to do with the frequency of usage; instead it depends almost solely on the design of the fixture the bulbs are used in. If the BASE of the fixture is wide open (you can easily touch the base of the bulb while it's screwed into the socket), the bulbs seem to last a long time. If the base is at all enlcosed or covered, the life is a lot shorter. Also, I've noticed that bulbs hanging straight down tend to have a longer life than those that are mounted at a 45 or 90 degree angle.

The difference in life is quite dramatic. The bulbs that are used in my daughter's bedroom (three of them in a 90 degree mounted enclosed decorative fixture) all burned out in 6 to 9 months. Three of them used in an enclosed 45 degree angled ceiling fan fixture in our living room failed within a year. The bulbs in our bathroom routinely fail also (enclosed base, 90 degree mounted).

On the other hand, NONE of the bulbs in my son's bedroom (six of them in track lighting fixtures hanging almost straight down) have failed in almost two years of constant use. Neither has any the of bulbs in our kitchen (one standing straight up, the other hanging straight down, both fixtures with wide open bases. Ditto with the units in our garage (hanging straight down, wide open bases).

So, it depends on the design of the fixtures in your house. I continue to use 'em everywhere because I can't argue with the savings.

I just toss 'em. Bought in bulk with a rebate, they're about twice as expensive as an incandescent. With the reduced energy costs over the life of the bulb, it comes out about even on the ones with a shortened life.

I would recommend NOT to use the regular bulbs in outdoor fixtures, unless they are very well enclosed. The FEIT bulbs you mentioned even admonish not to do this in text written right on the base of the bulb. The integrity of the sealed base to water is not absolute, and I have seen those bulbs fizzle out in a puff of smoke when used outdoors. BEWARE!

If you need outdoor CF bulbs, they are available. I'm using several flood replacements outdoors as we speak, and they seem to work very well, with a long life so far (more than a year now).

It's hit or miss, even with the same bulbs on different days. Sometimes there AM interference, sometimes not. These bulbs use an electronic ballast so some AM interference is almost mandatory.

Those words are FCC-speak for "we're too damn lazy to force manufacturers of this noisy crap to change their ways, so YOU deal with it."

Back in the old days, this "must accept interference" tag was only allowed to be used on equipment that was intended to be used in office buildings. Now it has slowly but surely creeped into devices used in the home. Funny how that happens.......

(Soapbox ON)

It's simple really. If Bush actually did anything to right this wrong, it would upset the energy buddies in Texas that have him firmly in their pockets. Actually getting the money back for us that Enron ripped from us would require a couple more testicles than Mr. Bush has, so it won't happen.

One of many reason I won't be voting for our incumbent President in November.

It wouldn't surprise me....... San Diego was the first sign that energy deregulation in California was going to be a costly fiasco. That the politicians did nothing about it at that time, when it was still possible to reverse gears, speaks volumes about the leadership qualities and priorities of our folks in Sacramento and Washington.

(Soapbox OFF)

-Scott

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AT THE EMAIL ADDRESS ABOVE! Instead, go to the following web page to get my real email address:

has been done because I am sick of SPAMMERS making my email unusable)

[Terry]

Terry who originally posted as follows;

Terry now says; Thank you for the many replies, comments and advice. I have to agree with most of them. Especially "The you get what you pay for"! I do suspect that this was an 'el cheapo' imported brand of lamp and recommendations to use a 'good' brand suitable for North American, especially Canadian (low temperature etc.) conditions are well taken. A lot of useful and knowledgeable information and a touch of humour in many of the replies; btw I did think it was worthwhile to mention the RFI factor as well. To the many posters who have replied and shared their information, thank you. Terry. PS. Someone asked about our electricity cost; here it averages 8.6 cents Canadian or roughly 6.7 cents US (and 3.8 pence UK?) per kilowatt hour. This is based on the total (basic monthly account charge, kilowatt hour consumption at 6.77 cents/kw.hr Can. and all sales taxes) divided by number of kilowatts, for a typical winter month. All electric house btw.

[HA HA Budys Here]

Geez... we're double that...

At any rate, Home Depot is odd in that a package with 1 bulb could be 8.99, while the 4-pack of the SAME bulb is 9.99.

Keep you eyes peeled.

Cosco has a 5-pack and now, also the 3 or 4 packs of the 100 watt equivilant - which aren't as common as the 60 or 75 watt equivilant bulbs. Cheaper than the Depot.

[Specter]

I replaced about half our incandescant bulbs with compact flourescents, about a year ago. We use everything from 10W for bedside reading lights to

23W in the laundry room. Some are left on almost continuously, and others get switched on and off a dozen times in a day. We have yet to have one burn out.

I do use a compact flourescent in in our exterior light, only in summer, and only in a weather protected, but open fixture. During the winter, that bulb gets replaced by a standard incandescant bulb. The CF has the additional benefit of not attracting bugs.

We undertook a large number of energy conservation measures, at the time we switched over our lighting, so it's difficult to quantify the effect of switching bulbs, alone, but I can tell you we have cut our power consumption almost in half.

Rob

[Bill Jeffrey]

Here in AZ, I live in a housing development where each house has two outside light fixtures that are on all the time - they are not on switches. Makes the area inviting, don'cha know, to have each house lighted at night, and I kind of agree. Some homeowners remove the bulbs or simply let them burn out, but then the HOA comes after you. Since I am here only 6 months of the year, but the lights burn all 12 months, I put small flourescents in both fixtures. I learned a few things.

1. You're right - they are too stubby to fit in the standard outdoor fixtures. But most any hardware store, Wal-Mart, etc, has short "socket extenders" that get you past this.
2. Color doesn't matter in an outside light, IMHO. You're looking for illumination, not artwork.
3. Brightness is hard to judge by eyeball. Incandescents look brighter because they are a point source of light, whereas fluorescents are an extended source. However, I found that if I put a 60-watt-equivalent fluorescent in one fixture and a 60-watt incandescent in the other, waited until dark, and then stepped back from the house and out into the street, they appeared to wash an equal amount of light down the wall and into the yard.
4. UL/CSA and RFI don't have any connection with each other. UL/CSA are safety organizations.
5. It doesn't get cold enough here to cause light output to drop - but I tried the same thing in Maine, and sure enough, the lamps barely light when the temp dips below about 50F.

Bill Jeffrey ===============================

Terry wrote: