3 way switch disaster (long but interesting)

[RB]

You'll probably have to draw this out so I'll explain it to the best of my ability:

I have an outside light and an inside light connected to a set of 3-way switches. When switched, both the indoor and outdoor lights go on/off together.

The 3 way switch in the basement has 1 cable with black, white, and red connected to the switch. The 3 way switch upstairs (the one in question) has 4 cables coming into the box and is connected as follows.

Cable 1 (assumed power feed)

- Black connected to different colored terminal on switch

- White twisted together with 2 whites (from cable 2 and cable 3).

Cable 2 (assumed cable from indoor and outdoor lights)

- Black twisted together with black from cable 3 and white from cable 4.

- White twisted together with 2 whites (from cable 1 and cable 3).

Cable 3 (assumed kitchen light)

- Black twisted together with black from cable 2 and white from cable 4.

- White twisted together with 2 whites (from cable 1 and cable 2)

Cable 4 (from downstairs 3-way switch)

- Black to terminal on 3-way switch

- Red to terminal on 3-way switch

- White twisted together with 2 blacks (from cable 1 and 2)

My goal is to use a combination 1 single pole and 1 3-way switch to have the inside light be connected to the 3 way switches and the outside light to be switched normally from the location in question. The Leviton switch I bought (CAT 5241) works such that the top switch is a 3-way and the bottom is a single pole standard switch.

When I wired up the new switches, I didn't realize that the kitchen light was involved. I assumed the 4 cables were incoming power, link to 3-way switch in basement, outside light, inside light. It appears that I was wrong because now I have a mess (top switch controls inside and outside lights in conjunction with 3 way switch downstairs, bottom switch controls kitchen light based on the state of the top switch). Although the set of

3-way switches (switch in basement and top switch upstairs) is behaving correctly, the inside and outside lights still go on/off together. My new assumption is the outside light is wired to the inside light and comes down from the inside light to the 3 way switch as cable 2. I'm guessing that cable 3 is from the kitchen light.

Do my assumptions make sense? Without running more cable, is there accomplish what I want?

Thanks everyone for reading such a long post.

[toller]

You have at least one error. You say that the cable1 black goes to the switch, but that the cable4 white is attached to the Cable1 black. the cable1 black can't go to both the switch and the cable4 white.

[John Grabowski]

Toller is right. You should have a load wire to feed the lights if they operated correctly prior to your changes. To put it in your terms: The white from cable 4 should connect to the black of cable 2. I'm assuming that the black and red of cable 4 are being used as the travelers and the white is connected to the black terminal on the other 3-way switch..

In answer to your question, you will need to run a 2 wire to feed the one light that you want on a separate switch.

John Grabowski

[RB]

You are correct. Cable 4 white is attached to cable 2 and cable 3 black. Cable 1 black does feed the switch terminal that is different colored than the other two.

[toller]

Where does the kitchen light fit into it? Before you intervened, did it go on and off with the other two lights? You only mentioned a pair of 3way switchs, did the kitchen light have a different switch?

Also, identify for sure where the blacks on cable 2 and 3 go; that is simply a matter of connecting them one at a time and seeing what lights work.

[RB]

Sorry, I didn't want it to get too confusing...

Before I intervened, the kitchen light worked from another switch. Now, in order to turn the kitchen light on, the set of switchs have to be on and then the real switch for the kitchen light will work.

[toller]

Okay, it makes sense now. Cable 2 or 3 goes to the kitchen light. It is connected to cable 4, so it is on the switches. It should be (and presumably was) off the hot on cable

2. Sadly, John was right; you will have to run a new cable to one of the lights; it doesn't matter which. They are now on the same branch, and you have to separate them.

[RB]

Hi.

I've got a CAD drawing of the circuit (that I can turn into a jpeg if need be) that I can send along if you're interested. My biggest problem is I'm having a hard time tracing how the kitchen light gets power (actually, the more I think about it the more confused I get). New installations of 3-way switches are easier for me to grasp, but trying to troubleshoot existing wiring (that may or may not follow standards) are leaving me a bit confused.

If I'm bothering you, by all means tell me to get lost. I'm just trying to avoid burning my house down :)

[toller]

The kitchen light, cable 2 or 3, was attached to cable 1 for power. It then went to the light and the other switch. You connected it to cable 4, so the other switchs also had to be on.

As I suggested before, disconnect cables 3 and 4 one at a time, and make sure what they actually power. A CAD drawing isn't useful if you are not sure what the cables do.