220VAC circuit installation questions

[jjrobinson2]

I need to install a new 40A 220 VAC circuit for the incoming Whirlpool range. My circuit box (yes, it's Federal Pacific, probably 25 years old, but I'm not able to change it right now) is mounted on the outside rear wall of the house, apparently with everything pulled up through the wall. How does one safely fish 8ga. wire for the new circuit into the box from the attic? Also, am I likely to find breakers to fit this thing at the local Home Depot/Lowes (GE, Siemens, etc)?

[HA HA Budys Here]

You will still find breakers, though now made by Challenger. You may also find that this 2p 40a breaker will cost about the same as a brand new GE panel with

10 breakers included.

[zxcvbob]

One way to do it is to put a 3/4" or larger EMT conduit from the top of the box up through the soffit *outside* the wall into the attic.

Bob

[Chris Lewis]

According to HA HA Budys Here :

Federal Pioneer (the Canadian arm of Federal Pacific) is still in business, and in Canada the breakers are price comparable with other brands.

Try a Canadian mail-order house.

is a distributer.

appears to mailorder them.

[SQLit]

40 amps for an range? Most ranges I have installed were 50 amps.

Please hire this work done. The questions your asking are way to simple. You should not be working around a hot bus if your not experienced.

Personally I would be buying an new service before the range.

[jjrobinson2]

No, really. The layout of this box has all of the lines from the house pulled through a single hole in the brick through a knockout in the back of the box, right behind the incoming hot service lines. Probably wired by the original mass-production house contractor before the drywall went up. No strain reliefs, no separate knockouts, no protection of the lines at all--I'm probably lucky if its watertight with the wall.

Thanks for the information. A compatible 2-pole 40A breaker is selling for

60USD on this side of the border, and many of the online dealers are selling reconditioned parts for that. The conduit up the outside of the wall idea sounds like a reasonable solution for now. I think the whole mess needs to be replaced as soon as possible.

[HA HA Budys Here]

I've seen this in a couple of homes in Florida. All homeruns come through a single 2" knockout in the top of the box with no romex connectors at all. Just a 2" PVC pipe connector to serve as a grommet.

Inspectors in Fla must accept this I suppose. Wouldn't fly around here, but I doubt that timesaver is really dangerous it's not like those cables are flapping in the breeze.

[Greg]

This is the exception to 312.5(C) they are using. I bet they are cheating on at least one of these rules.

Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) or more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all the following conditions are met: (a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway. (b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure and does not penetrate a structural ceiling. (c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation. (d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclosure through the raceway. (e) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway and extends into the enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm (1/4 in.). (f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in accordance with the applicable article. (g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not exceed that permitted for complete conduit or tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto. FPN:See Table 1 in Chapter 9, including Note 9, for allowable cable fill in circular raceways. See 310.15(B)(2)(a) for required ampacity reductions for multiple cables installed in a common raceway.

[I-zheet M'drurz]

Do you and Volts500 get together and read your code books while you explore your conductors?

[Doug Miller]

You should try reading a code book yourself once in a while, Tom.

[... ...]

OK let me see it I understand this. Somebody posts an electrical question that raised a few eyebrows. Tom responds with a code section that was most likely used to justify the installation. So Tom gets slammed because you can't come up with a better answer? One of the problems with DIY is that there a lot of people doing stuff they shouldn't. There a lot of people out there wiring stuff that they shouldn't . They seem to think that just because they turn on the breaker and nothing blows up that everything is fine. Just because something works doesn't mean that it is wired correctly or that the install meets code or is safe. Geez we are all trying to help each other here. So if someone takes the time to post a code section so be it. maybe we can all learn something. I think some people feel that codes just drive up the price of a job . People that think that way should realize that codes protect Us by guarantying a safe installation.

Bill

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

Be Quiet now for we are setting this house up to burn it down ourself and don't need any help doing it. If we read the code books the fire may never get started like it is suppose to.

TURTLE

[jjrobinson2]

Except in this case, the brick is serving as a grommet.

[I-zheet M'drurz]

"Taking the time to post a code section" and sitting at home obsessing about it are two different things. The question at hand didn't call for a code compliance report complete with speculation about how/why the person's municipality was allowing the situation to exist.

There are a couple of people on this group who feel the need to ram code down people's throats whether they need it or not. They need to learn about speaking when spoken to, as the old saying goes.

[Greg]

Which prompts the question, what is more "off topic", quoting the relevant code or bitching about it.

[jjrobinson2]

Is it typical of this group to start a thermonuclear flame war for every question?

The electrical code information/interpretation is certainly of interest, but has to be taken in context. The house was built about '79 as part of a subdivision of cookie-cutter houses, and clearly code compliance (especially post-turn-of-the-century) wasn't weighing heavily on their minds---more likely dwelling on a can of Skoal and a cold beer----

[Greg]

Yes I appologize. I realize bitching about the guy bithcing is the most OT of all. Sorry folks.