200A service panel replacement

[Tekkie®]

I was quoted $3500 for 200A Square D service panel replacement which I think is on the high side.

ELECTRICAL QUOTE

200A Service Upgrade Service Head Service entrance cable Meter base Square D type QO equipment 200 Amp main breaker panel 40 space max S.P. circuits Breakers as required Properly label panel 3/4" plywood panel board built out in front of soil pipes Good whole house surge protection GFI receptacle below panel Copper ground rods and conductors Proper ground to water service Intersystem bonding bridge Removal of old equipment Clean up Permit Inspection

In their quote was a surge protector: PSPproducts.net

PSP H1-75-04N 75kA Surge Capacity MOV Technology LED visual indicator NEMA 4X Indoor/Outdoor rated Lifetime Warranty $50,000 Down line Warranty

Upgrade to...

Best (+$300) PSP HC1C100-06-N 100kA Surge Capacity MOV & Gas tube technology Faster Response Time LED visual indicator and audible alarm NEMA 6 Indoor/Outdoor rated Multiple mounting options Lifetime Warranty $100,000 Down line Warranty

Any thoughts on the quote and these protectors?

[gfretwell]

It depends on where you are. If you are in a blue (union) state, that is probably about right.

About the protector, grounding and bonding with the other things coming in (phone, cable, sat) is more important than the unit itself

[hubops]

Can you ask for < & provide us with > a more-detailed quote ? eg how many feet of entrance cable : : material ? : labour ? ,, complicated excavation ? Way too many unknowns to judge the quote. John T.

[hubops]

Really ? How does that work in your blue states ? It's the opposite in my world - residential service upgrades are the bread & butter of small electrical contractors - never unionized. The unionized trades are working on the commercial & industrial jobs and for the utilities. John T.

[Vic Smith]

I'm in a "blue" state. Illinois. Blue county too. Cook. Same as Chicago. When I lived in Chicago, I had my service replaced. It was not a union electrical company. It was about $500, but that was in '84 or '85. It was 100 amp. I live just outside Chicago now, and I had the service replaced. Again non-union. I paid $1200 for a 100 amp service, plus a 220v run for new central air. And a new pipe through the roof. But that was in 1998. Check around for young hungry guys.

[Willy]

Your instincts are correct.  I had meter base, service entrance cable and a new 200A Siemens panel with generator inlet installed for $1800.  The permit and inspection was $150 additional.

[Piso Mojado]

My neighbor's wife started doing that and now she's his ex-wife ;-)

[Frank]

Had mine done 11 years ago for $725 but that included a transfer panel for my generator. I would think cost would be double by now but nowhere near as high as yours.

[gfretwell]

He said service head so that implies overhead service, no service lateral (underground). The SE cable is what goes from the service point at the customer end of the overhead drop to the meter can and then on to the panel.

This is actually a fairly detailed proposal. The biggest thing I see missing is the number and type of breakers. Bear in mind he will be required to use AFCI breakers just about everywhere and the inspector might require GFCI breakers on any applicable circuit that does not have device type GFCIs. At $30-40 a pop, that adds up pretty fast. The other wild card is how much needs to be done to the existing wiring to mate up with the new panel. If they bump into multiwire circuits, that might get ugly or require a more expensive 2 pole AFCI. The alternative is to combine both legs onto one breaker but then you will have a problem with the 3va per square foot rule if the inspector is willing to check it out. I know it would ring a bell with me and I would get my tape measure out. These are usually the rooms as far away from the panel as they can be, typically bedrooms. It started becoming a problem in 2002 when they started the AFCI thing. Prior to that it was common to run a 14/3 to a ceiling box in one of the bedrooms and split off 2 circuits from there. This was cheaper and also mitigated the voltage drop.

[gfretwell]

In the 90s you could get a service upgrade in SW Fla for that kind of money but with all of the new code rules, that price is a lot higher and there are plenty of places with higher labor rates, union or not.

[Ed Pawlowski]

May be a bit high but it also depends on how much incoming cable is needed. The price of cable went wa up a few years back.

The upgrade surge protection seems steep from what I've seen. I'd get another price.

[gfretwell]

There is not going to be much "incoming wire". It just comes from the mast to the panel and it may be aluminum anyway.

Those expensive protectors with the down stream insurance include the cost of that insurance. It may be more than the part itself.

[Clare Snyder]

Mabee a WEE bit on the high side - here in Ontario, in Canadian dollars it would be a deal. Not sure if the upgraded surge protection is worth an extra $300 - you don't know untill you get hit and it works - and even then you don't know if the smaller one would have done the job.

Good choice on the QO though - but up here the "special" breakers -ie-

2 pole, arc fault etc. are HELLISHLY expensive up here compared to in the USA. I had a friend bring a few of them up for me - less than half price and they DO have the Canadian certification on them.

[Clare Snyder]

Sounds about right with NO underground feeder replacement - just a new meter base, panel, and required GFCI and AFCI equipment.

[Clare Snyder]

BIG difference between a Seimens and a Square D QO - in both price and quality.

[gfretwell]

You can get a 42 circuit QO main breaker panel and a few breakers on a package for about $200 online but you might not get that at every electrical supplier. Just because a place caters to the trade, does not mean they are the cheapest place to shop. They do provide services to trades tho.

[Vic Smith]

Yeah, talking about 1998 prices sorta reminds me of a post from

BTW, it was '78 not '84-85 when I got that $500 service, and the problem with getting a decent price in Chicago was because the electrical contractors and the city electrical inspectors were working together. They ended up indicting at least 1/3 of the electrical inspectors. It was just dumb luck I called guys whose dad was wearing a wire for the feds. Fifth Avenue Electric. 11 brothers and their dad. Dead honest. It was the time of the so-called "Mirage Scandal." It's in Wiki.

[Clare Snyder]

So true!!!! I was looking for a couple 30 amp 125 volt femail locking cord ends for a project late last week. Home despot had them for $42 Canadian. None of 5 of my local electrical supply houses could beat the price - ranged from $43 to $78!!!!! I kept calling around and found a supplier down the road in Cambridge that could get me Leviton product for $22. All the other suppliers only quoted Thomas & Betts or Hubbel. Then I needed 3 3/4 inchcable flex gland connectors to insert #10-3 flex cable to the box. Ibervilles were $4.33 each - and ITC were $1.60 each, They only had 2 ITCs and 1 Iberville - so that's what I got (same supplier)

[Tekkie®]

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...

I've read all the replies and *thanks* for them.

No union for residential in Eastern PA.

No underground. The entrance cable runs from the weather-head along the eav e to the meter, I estimate 20 ft.

A complication is the panel mounting. Presently it resides right above the soil pipe and my wife has stated she would like it lower because she is short and can't readily reach it. I am disabled and would never make it dow n the stairs except head first.

I don't know of any GFCI/AFCI breakers in there now. I had a new outlet installed in the bedroom awhile ago and didn't ask at that time.

The panel is full at this time and I have a sub panel which I believe is full.

I don't have any issues other than the occasional-maybe every two weeks at most-flicker in the bathroom when either or both the oil burner and well pump come on.

[trader_4]

ote:

They will be required on the new panel, one or the other on most circuits, which adds to the cost.

What's the purpose of the upgrade?