I only use the expanding foam where the lineset is inside of a PVC chase inside of the slab. 99% of what I do is single family residential. Apartment owners and commerical building owners around here only want the lowest bidder.
The linesets are encased in a PVC pipe chase inside of the slab so there is no direct contact between copper and concrete. The PVC pipe chase also makes it a lot easier to change the lineset when needed.
Just put a 45 degree elbow (long radius prefered)on the pipe where it comes out in the closet floor.
Don't know.... I only handle Rheem/RUUD
The only differance between the 2 is the cost of the refrigerant, OTOH, with the high efficiency R-22 systems needing twice the refrigerant of the R-410a systems, it comes out a wash.
Thats not my problem.
Ah, so don't come straight up! Just try to get into the closet as straight as possible, and with as few degrees of bend as possible, and with as long a radius as possible. Ok, I'll put that in the spec!
Really?
So, um, how is it both units ARE THE SAME SEER?
Efficiency is simply the ratio of two scalar physical quantities: heat moved to power consumed. For example, BTUs per watt-hour. Coil or compressor volume is not a factor.
Good stuff - yes it's (polyurethene sealant) quite legitimate to use on single detached dwelling units. Some more considerations for all you craftsmen ...... Also glad that you use extended radius wherever practical - For R22 I believe that the rule of thumb for linesets is each 90deg bend is equal to
5m (that's about 15 feet) of horizontal pipe run and the maximum lift for R22 needs to be kept below 6m (20 ft). An oil trap needs to be used if the evaporator is below the compressor (or the oil will migrate out of the compressor then "poof" another unnecessary callout and repair) and if otherwise the lineset should fall at not less than 1degree back to the compressor (same reason).
I don't know how much you can get away with on a 7/8" suction line, but the two I've pulled both had 45-degree ells at both ends (total 90). The pull and subsequent re-piping were a little bit hard, and required some cooperation to not put too much pull at the bends, but we didn't crimp the suction lines doing them.
LLoyd
So why is it that the coils size, volume, refrigerant quantity, compressor size, compressor capacity are so much larger on the R-22 systems to get the same efficiency and BTU ratings as the same equipment in R-410a????
I can only tell you what I *SEE* from direct, hands on experience, and what I am learning from the manufacturers tech reps, and engineers.
Richard, Just for grinns, how many of each of these systems have you installed?? What first hand experience do you have with the new systems??
Why are package unit and split unit cabinet sizes the exact same for r-22 & 410a?
R-22 uses double row coils and R-410a uses single row coils
I'm guessing, but would it be to make the new ones "plug-n-play" replacements for the older units?
LLoyd
First Thank you Mr. Kinch You are the first person that I read in these forum about Refrigerant 410, I personally I do not find anything good about R-410. but then all new refrigerants are not that great with exception of R-508B all rest run with high temp. discharge if system develop leak on low side 9 to 1 you must change oil because you can not take moisture out of oil, so what it's good about this new refrigerant I have no idea. However Manufactures loves R-410 because it makes compressors more efficient specifically Scrowl no that is not correct, "actually all compressors other then reciprocal" again because it is easier for them to assemble the system and compressors are cheaper there is no other benefits from this refrigerant
I regard to piping size you can always use higher pressure refrigerants on the older systems that was using lower pressure refrigerant of the same capacities. Note yes R-22 manufacture will stop making new gas but recycled gas will be on market for long time after that. Tony
"Tony" wrote in news:7b23i.9436$yy6.1077@trnddc05:
You must be new here....
So what? How does that make them poor refrigerants?
A leak on the low side doesn't mean moisture will get into the system. It's still under pressure. How do you figure external moisture is going to overcome the pressure of the refrigerant leaking out and infiltrate the system?
Maybe take a night school course.
Where are you getting this s*it from?? Did this come to you in a dream???
Sounds like you're talking about two different measures of efficiency. One is saying that R-410 is a more efficient *refrigerant* because it provides more cooling per unit of refrigerant pumped around the system. The other is saying that both *systems* have the same efficiency in terms of cooling provided per watt-hour of electricity consumed.
Dave
Yes. My right one, and the other wrong one.
That's an interesting issue, but it is not a matter of efficiency.
Your observations are fine. Your analysis of those observations is muddled as regards efficiency.
The profit motive tends to overpower critical thinking. Here is some typical blarney from a Peirce-Phelps, Inc Web page that shills for Carrier
Now if it is more efficient, up to 14 SEER, then this implies there is no R-22 system of 14 SEER or more. Which is false.
Yes you can, it's just a pain in the ass!
Low side, it's not ALWAYS under pressure during operation.
Actually it is, as R-410a is a more efficient refrigerant than R-22, because it takes approximately half of the amount of refrigerant to do the same job.
Again, as I asked before, what actual hands on experience do you have with
*ANY* R-410a refrigerant or equipment??... specifically equipment designs manufactured after January 2006. Have you even *SEEN* any of the new equipment?? Have you been to any of the classes or training for R-410a or the new equipment and technologies??ummmm....yeah, ok... typical Carrier sales stuff for their older equipment.
This has nothing to do with the current conversation. If your trying to confuse the issue as you like to do, please take it somewhere else. If you have the training, education and experience with any of the new equipment and technologies on the market, then by all means continue, but please try to keep on track.
No. Efficiency is a ratio of HEAT TRANSFERRED to ENERGY CONSUMED. No mass or volume factors in that ratio.
Maybe you are a Carrier salesman or ad-copy writer, in which case facts don't matter? "Efficiency" is then a puff word, not a physical measurement. Or maybe you are a tradesman who passes this phoniness along to the homeowner to justify your unearned profits from trade regulation and collusion. You just want to believe it because otherwise you feel you haven't honestly earned the exorbitant prices you charge.
Carrier is just making a big lie out of this, saying Puron "lends itself" to efficiency. "Lends itself" just means "more expensive to make an air conditioner with it" for the same efficiency. So you can only sell the more efficient models, since the extra costs of 410a vs 22 are buried in dual-speed and other expensive gadgetry.
To you and Carrier, one 14 SEER unit is "more efficient" than another. Baloney.
Tradesman's swagger doesn't enlighten you in the least on this question.
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