Do driers come with moisture in them?

[Gary]

I never thought about this before but since I've started doing 410A systems I'm using a lot more driers.I've noticed that it takes considerably longer to get to 500 microns on systems with new driers installed than those with none at all. We virtually never use driers on R22 new installations & get to 500 microns usually in twenty minutes where it can take hours on 410A installations where a drier is used. So far the drier is the only common denominator I've found that changes with the installations along with the time it takes to pull down. Anyone else notice a difference.

[Noon-Air]

No difference here, but then I *always* install a new driers any time I install a new system or a system is opened up. As far as the length of time it takes, let me ask this... have you noticed that the evap coils are 3 times the size of the old R-22 systems?? BTW... all of the new Rheem condensers and heat pumps come with a new drier included, so there is no excuse for not installing one.

[new jersey]

It is not drier it is OIL POE it is virtually impossible to remove moisture from POE oil You are lucky that you do not work on low temperatures systems to get 500 microns it require overnight evacuation and do lot of praying that is why I like to stay way from any refrigerant that uses POE oil How many service tech. knows that R-134a can cause tumor in they testicles Remember you hear it first from me! have fun guys Tony

[KJPRO]

It's not "virtually impossible", it *is* impossible, without the use of filter/driers!

Now for the cold hard facts... think *new* systems... is there POE oil in

*new* line sets or evaporators???? Now Tony, remember, you here it from me first!!!

Now, go get a clue...

[KJPRO]

I haven't noticed any difference here... unless it's on a repair, when the condenser is open. Driers are to be sealed when you buy them.

What brand of filter/drier are you using?

[Gary]

I use mostly Carrier/TotalLine driers but they come with their 410A units. Sometimes I use Parkers if i buy at the Goodman distibutor. Goodman R-22 systems come with a drier installed in the condenser so there's no need for one in a new installation. I've installed both Goodman & Payne 410A systems & both seem just as hard to get down below 500 microns. The other day I was helping a friend of mine who didn't use a drier & it pumped down incredibly fast with the same pump. That's when I came to the conclusion it must be the driers.

[Zyp]

[Is] that what your problem is Tony - sniffing 134a has caused a brain fusion in your left testicle.

[Stormin Mormon]

You mean Tony's a testicle doctor, too?

I'd have to do some checking. But, I think the driers are chemicals like plaster of paris, that chemically combine with the water. So, it would be impossible to get the water out, except for heat. Just my understanding of the matter, I could be mistaken.

[KJPRO]

When are you not?

[Zyp]

ROFL

The "plaster like" is desiccant. The drier is something of a molecular sieve and holds moisture unless they become hydrophobic [from oil]. Water can be remove either through dehydration [evacuation] or heat will drive a considerable amount out. Both heat and evacuation will get 'er done.

[Don Ocean]

I cannot believe that anyone in this business has not sawn one open and checked what made it plug up.

[Bubba]

Gary, Shame on you for not using driers on R-22 new installations. There is no magic to it. If you use a drier, have good brazing techniques and evacuate to 500 microns or less you will have systems that seem to last forever. I know this for a fact as Ive done it for about 25 years. I still find old shit out there Ive installed a long long time ago. Rusted to hell and still working. Id really like to know what you use (hose type/size and pump type) to get a new install to pump down to 500 micron (and hold) in 20 mins. I can pump down a lineset and indoor coil and still not get that to happen in 20 mins. Other than that, the new R410a systems usually hold a lot more refrigerant than the previous less efficient R-22 10 SEER systems. Larger coils too. That and the fact that you cant remove the moisture from the POE oil in a R410a system. Bubba

[Gary]

Why would you put a dryer in a new installation when you have a new lineset & a condenser with a factory installed bi-flow dryer? It seems redundant. I rarely have any problems with my new installations for years to come. The only real problem I've had is indoor coil leaks lately. Are you going to blame that on not using a dryer? I mainly use Ritchie/Yellow Jacket gauges & hoses. I got tired of Robinair crap. The 3/8" hoses pump down better but I usually use the standard 1/4" for both 410 & 22. I used to use Robinair & JB vacuum pumps but last year I tried a Gemco pump & it works great. I put a reversing valve in Friday & it pumped down to 425 microns in less than 20 min with a dryer. Very short lineset less than 10 ft. It didn't hold but after about another ten minutes it held at 425 microns. Lately I've been using a Fieldpiece vacuum gauge. It's pretty cool because you can set a high & low alarm to whatever microns you want it to go off at.

[Bubba]

Well, actually I dont use a dryer on a new installation. I use a "drier" :-) I use them if the new unit does NOT have a factory drier. Ones like Tempstar come with a drier shipped separately and are full size (16 cu. in) instead of those silly little 3, 5 or 6 cu. in. ones I see in so many brands. Yep, I see indoor coil leaks too and Nope I dont blame that on driers. I too got tired of Robinair crap only I caught on long ago about their junk. I rarely see a 10 ft line set. I usually have 30 ft or more. I use the JB 6 cfm vac pump (although only a 3 cfm is needed) and standard gauges with the 1/4 inch high press hoses with seal fittings on the ends. The JB vac gauge is digital and works well too, just doesnt seem to do it in 20 mins. More like 1 hr maybe. I'll double check the next one. Bubba

[KJPRO]

And the larger 5 ton units come with a 30 cu. in