billo said: "That's what comes from drawing conclusions from inconclusive studies. It's what comes from taking a limited study and pretending that it is definitive. Early results are commonly reversed by definitive studies. It's as common as dirt. But people who use these early results as if they were definitive do it because they have an agenda."
H. Kuska comment: billo again appears to be using a modified criteria: (this is the original one - "come up with a single scientific article that claims to show that Roundup is dangerous to humans when used as directed") to one where the scientific study must be "definitive". Unfortunately in science "definitive" is almost an impossible goal (in non simple yes/no situations). It is also a relative concept. What one group may consider for all practical purposes as "definitive" another group may not. For example, there is still a group that argues against the banning of DDT. You may have noticed that we use " 95 % Confidence Intervals". This means stasticially that the number can be thought of as being within that range with a 95 % confidence limit.
A large study is being done: "An ongoing study funded jointly by the National Cancer Institute, National Institute of Environmental Health and the EPA is tracking 90,000 herbicide applicators and their spouses to look for possible health effects of pesticides." (quote from the following July
2003 article:
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If you would like to read additional information about chemicals and birth defects you can do a Google search. A recommended site is the March of Dimes site:
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specific page on that site of interest is:
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. The pertanent information is:
"Can pesticides harm an unborn baby? Pregnant women should avoid pesticides, whenever possible. There is no proof that exposure to pest-control products at levels commonly used at home pose a risk to the fetus. However, all insecticides are to some extent poisonous and some studies have suggested that high levels of exposure to pesticides may contribute to miscarriage, preterm delivery and birth defects. Certain pesticides and other chemicals, including PCBs, have weak, estrogen-like qualities called endocrine disrupters that some scientists suspect may affect development of the fetus's reproductive system.
A pregnant woman can reduce her exposure to pesticides by controlling pest problems with less toxic products such as boric acid (use the blue form available at hardware stores). If she must have her home or property treated with pesticides, a pregnant woman should: a.. Have someone else apply the chemicals and leave the area for the amount of time indicated on the package instructions. b.. Remove food, dishes and utensils from the area before the pesticide is applied. Afterwards, have someone open the windows and wash off all surfaces on which food is prepared. c.. Close all windows and turn off air conditioning, when pesticides are used outdoors, so fumes aren't drawn into the house. d.. Wear rubber gloves when gardening to prevent skin contact with pesticides." MedLine is the source of the latest scientific information for doctors. I post abstracts from it on general public internet boards. My policy has been to post them without comment. If the reader does not have the background to understand the abstract; and if is potentially applicable to their lifestyle (in this case pregnancy), I would hope that she would bring the abstract to the attention of their doctor.
The Minnesota study states "about 3.7 % of children born on an average day in the United States are said to have a birth defect". I do not know about your family, but in my family the pregnant woman have practiced the Precautionary Principle with regard to potential birth defect agents. If a pregnant woman decides to use Round-Up, according to the most recent information available (the 2002 Minnesota paper under consideration here - "Use of the herbicide glyphosate yielded an OR of 3.6 (CI, 1.3-9.6) in the neurobehavioral category."); she is increasing the odds of having of baby with a neurobehavioral birth defect. If she wants to waits for a "definitive" study, that is her choice; but according to the knowledge now available, she is running an increased risk. This is not simply an increased risk of a one time and it is over event, this is an increased risk of having brought into this world a child who may have a lifetime birth defect and a possible potential of being able to pass it along to future generations! About 15 years ago I read a very interesting book about birth defects and chemical exposure. Unfortunately I do not remember the title, only the subtitle - "Blame it all on Mother". After reading that book, I included information from it in my lectures about chemical safety - One of my favorate quotes went something like the following: it is a horrible thing when a war kills such and such many people, it is also horrible when a plague kills such and such many; but the real, "super" horrible event is if we somehow introduce something that ruins the gene pool or otherwise has an effect over multgenerations. A little background may be in order: Historically, we started out with brute force poisons. As our understanding of biology/botany increased, we were able to develop more specific poisons, i.e. ones that we "thought" would only affect a certain biological pathway; for example, one that only an insect had. Unfortunately, nature did not decide to make all fungi silicon based life forms and all insects calcium based life forms. Instead, we are finding out that many biological pathways are similar in different life forms. That said, I will now make what appears to be a very cold statement. Similar to what I just said about normal natural disasters, the poisons of the past could kill, say, a hundred people, or a thousand people, or even a million people; as far as the big picture is concerned - so what? These are just numbers in one dimension. With our new more sophisticated "poisons" we have to be concerned about affecting the gene pool. This is a two dimensional poison - today and future generations. A comparison more familiar to the public is to compare a biodegradable poison spill with a radioactive spill. Hopefully, the above will help the reader understand why some feel that it is even more important to be cautious with the newer chemicals than it was with the older "less sophisticated" ones - particularly when birth defects are involved. This is why many scientists (including myself) advocate the utilization of the "Precautionary Principle" for suspected birth defect chemicals. If you are not familar with this principle, please see:
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Henry Kuska, retired snipped-for-privacy@neo.rr.com
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