Posting wrongfully in HTML instead of plain text and posting JPG's

[madgardener]

Well, I see that I have been rightfully accused and condemmed of wrongfully posting in HTML and posting a JPG on this text newsgroup. I have to say that I am not a selfish person, nor do I think that anything I do or say is of importance. That I've managed to step on the feelings and attitudes so very efficiently lately shows me that I need to back off and retreat.

I am NOT saying this to get responses for me "not to leave!" I am not asking for such things. It's really hard for me to lurk and not respond to things because I truely enjoy and need to visit and contribute to this newsgroup. I've been here for over seven years, and despite that in the past, so many enjoyed my postings about my fairy gardens and adventures about the cats, dogs and such, I think that it has come time to pull out for awhile.

I can't seem to get anything right lately,and that isn't meant as pity or blame or excuse. My job at Lowes doesn't have any schedule that is consistant, or enough hours to make it worth my time to drive not only myself to work which is only 14 miles one way, but to take oldest son to another Lowes which is 47 miles away, one way.

I have close shifts all this week, and then next week, as a wonderful thing, I have ALTERNATE days off. work, off, work, off, work, off. This will make me slightly mad (as in crazy). Bad enough I don't know sometimes if I'm coming or going with this job. And I can't afford to just give notice and get another job. I am still in an area where to quit a job that pays $7.80 an hour (despite not getting or being allowed to work more than 27 hours) is foolish when the alternative is work at a job that still won't give me more hours and pay me minimum wages.

Getting back to my rudeness and irresponsibility........I never meant to cause deletion of posts. I still grieve over the loss and inability to retrieve my previous posts from years past when I first came here. It's just a feeling, and eventually I'll get over it.

But I will say that the people here (most of them, about 99%) have kept me from major depression and given me a reason to not only continue gardening, but to see the magic in every blossom and textured leaf and Nature around me better. For what little bit it's worth (and I hate to admit my weakness), I really DO care what people think or say about me, meaning I guess after 52 years I still have feelings despite years of verbal and emotional abuse.

Warren, Travis, Janet......I sincerely apologize for disrupting this newsgroup. I had no idea how pissed off or inconsiderate it was to not only post in HTML or post a picture that I thought was awesome for me to capture even for a novice like myself. You can be assured you will not see me here for quite awhile and I will just visit some of the garden neighborhood friends thru e-mail as I can.

As giving and generous and I have always been, to have been accused of being selfish cuts pretty well. Despite just having to only correct the problem, I think I need to back off for awhile and despite that this is my most magical time of the year to share the gifts of my 9 raised beds, it's just not right for me to assume anything anymore. Bad enough that newsgroups are being dropped. I only go to one. This one. That's been it (with rare exception to alt.bianaries.pictures.gardens, which like I said, I never get to see pictures I see remarks about anyway and seems to be a waste of time, and I've posted there a few times.)

So with great emotion, I'll walk away. I'll possibly be back before spring is over. I probably rely too much on this computer and newsgroup anyway. Time to get back outside in the soil and dirt and anything neat I want to share, I'll just send thru e-mail if I get overcome by words.

Marilyn the madgardener, up on the ridge, back in Faerie Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone 36

[paghat]

But it is.

I didn't catch what someone said to you, but posting in html is one of those things usually only beginners do & some people respond to it in a kneejerk way, as "You retard, turn off your html!" It's just "I'm Annoyed So I'll Be Annoying 101" & it has nothing really to do with you. The best response is to turn off the accidentally on html feature & ignore the complainant.

Your posts are important here but now & then you get your feelings hurt, in some cases for no good reason. Somewhere between 95% & 99% of the people who post in here look forward to your posts & if that's not sufficient reward you're just being egomaniacal to demand 100%.

My suspicion is you're just having a depression attack & it's not this ng's fault, though if this ng doesn't help then it's your call whether its sufficiently rewarding to keep poking in. Things of no consequence seem big when one's general mood is gloomy. A week from now I bet you'll realize that if someone said you're a selfish dork for of all things posting in html, that's not even on the radar for reasons to feel misery about UseNet. On the other hand, if there are things that need getting done that don't get done because the computer has been too much fun, anything you stop doing on the computer will likely be a good thing, though I hope there are other things than this ng you can cut out.

-paghat the ratgirl

[Janet Baraclough]

The message from [e-mail] (paghat) contains these words:

There was nothing remotely like that. See "little pieces of stained glass" thread.Travis posted, not to M but someone else, a one line polite comment "posting in HTML is frowned upon". M went off the deep end at some length; Warren politely and clearly explained why HTML and posting binaries to a non-binary group are no-nos. I tried to defuse M's reaction. M lost the place all over again.

Otherwise, you hit the nail on the head, IMHO.

Janet.

[Jeana]

I agree with paghat. Besides, almost everyday I peek in here to see what your doing/saying. Everyone in this world makes boo boos. Just put on yer foil hat, let the stuff bounce right off and you'll be fine. :)

Jean

[Leon Trollski]

This was not pleasant to read. I wish I could convince madgardener to come back to the group, and learn how to killfile helpful people like Travis. There was nothing wrong with the broken glass post. I liked it.

[cat daddy]

I didn't see it. My service provider filters it because they consider it abuse. I like mad's posts, but ballooning a 3k post to 26K of unreadable script is not okay and those that point it out are right. Posting binaries could also get her account cancelled and cautioning her not to do so is an act of kindness.

The Absolute Beginner's Guide to Usenet

not post messages formatted in HTML

If you need help on configuring your newsreader software to post in plain text see

Configuring Microsoft Outlook Express versions 5.0 and 6.0 Plain text is the default posting format for news in these versions of Outlook Express. Here is how to change it back globally if necessary:

Choose 'Tools->Options' from the menu. Choose the 'Send' tab. Choose the 'Plain Text' radio button under 'News Sending Format'. Click the OK button.

You can also configure the default posting format for news servers (not groups) individually:

Highlight the server entry in the 'Folders' pane and choose 'File->Properties' from the menu. Choose the 'Advanced' tab. Check the 'Ignore news sending format and post using' checkbox under 'Posting'. Choose the 'Plain Text' radio button. Click the OK button.

Do not post binaries to non-binary newsgroups.

With spam, this is considered as serious net-abuse; it violates most service providers' Terms of Service (TOS), or Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), and so could lead to you losing your account. If you are in any doubts as to whether you are posting a binary or not, there is a simple rule of thumb - if it is not a straight ASCII text message, then don't post it in a non-binary newsgroup. Your graphic or soundfile might be 100% on-topic for the group you're posting to but if it is a non-binary newsgroup, it is net-abuse. Period. No exceptions. Ever. Put it on a website and post a message to the group saying what the URL is so that people who are interested can find it.

[Play4abuck]

Hello,

I must say this sort of things must happen in every newsgroup. You have got the spelling cops, the size limit police, the appropriate guardians, etc, all of which have their place in the newsgroup world. And then they have their followers; those that want to jump on the bandwagon to feel important because they have nothing else to contribute, some people just like to argue.

In this case I think there was some confusion over html-formatted text versus posting binary/pictures. Some one offered to share a picture via email, another html formatted msg requested the picture, then some complained about THAT msg which only requested an email. Then more confusion about posting versus emailing, and then we get a lecture on posting binaries to a rec.gardens which no one intended on doing in the first place.

These people with all their technical know-how fail to say that most can add; filters to hide your posts, filters to hide posts that are of a certain size so they are not downloaded, options that can be set to not download msgs larger than a set limit, and the option to read your msgs as Plain Text if they do not like your formatted text!

Just the other week someone pointed out to me that I was posting in HTML. I had changed computers and did not know that option was turned on. I shut it off, because it doubles the size of the message and I was not using any special format in the first place. If I wanted it formatted, then I would have left it on, doubling the size of a text message is not that big of deal. Many of us waste space and bandwidth every day when we unnecessarily include the original msg in our replies.

IMO, Newsgroup rules have not evolved, they are set back in the times when people had Commodore-64's and 1200/2400-baud modems and no one wanted to download 1 byte more than they had too. Some of us really need get with the times, this is not Rec.Gardens.Text but it is also not a Binary/Picture newsgroup either. I think you should be able to post html (as in formatted text) to Rec.Gardens. IMO, if some individual really has a problem with that, then they need to deal with it on their end.

I am just a part-timer here, but I can see that this newsgroup is important to you and I am sure that your posts are equally important to others. Do not let this event discourage you from posting here. Shake hands, bury the hatchet, and move on to more important things!

Great picture, I just had to check it out after all this discussion. I have been wanting to create a home printed calendar, may I use your pic for one of the months? Got any more?

For others who wish to see it, you can find it in the Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.gardens

From: "madgardener"

Subject: a kiss of spring early

Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005.

Cheers,

Jim

[alice]

I rarely post in newsgroups but read this one a lot and feel you have a lot to add. I would not let anybody force me out of a group that I enjoy and add to. You are an excellent writer and this gives you are area to do it. Do what you have to do but it would be good to toughen up a bit with that good Appalachian heritage..

Alice, Over the mountain in Weaverville, NC.

[Travis]

I never intended to chase you or anyone else away. I was just trying to be helpful. I enjoy reading your posts. Why can't you see the pix in alt.binaries.pictures.gardens?

[Travis]

I didn't say anything like that. I said "Posting in HTML is frowned upon" or words to that effect.

[Travis]

.....and her next post was in plain text and I thanked her for that.

[Warren]

Discussion groups are about using words to communicate. Fancy formatting doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. It has nothing to do with how long ago Usenet began, or what technology was in use at the time.

You also seem to make the assumption that everyone is using up to date equipment, and is running software that includes html capabilities for newsgroup reading. However, since html doesn't belong in newsgroups, it's unfair to insist that the reader needs to change their client software because you want to add some unnecessary fluff. It also causes problems for blind people and the software they use to read text.

If someone really has a problem with adopting the norms of conduct in the community, then they need to convince the community that the norms need to be changed. What does html add to the discussion? Simply believing that others should "deal with it on their end" when there was no reason to inflict it on them in the first place doesn't cut it.

Just because you have 4-wheel drive doesn't mean you can make your own exit ramps off the Interstate. You still should be using the same exit ramps that were put in when the highway was designed. If you want a new ramp, make your case for it, and let the community decide. Don't just start driving off the road, and expect others to "deal with it on their end".

[Warren]

Ditto.

If someone says, "you really need to care for that plant differently", the reaction expected isn't for the plant owner to give-up gardening.

[Leon Trollski]

No doubt that is true in the formal sense

I don't know what assumptions were made. Some folks make mistakes.

OK here's a dumb question, but why can't the servers strip out the html for except for binary groups?

Just because you're another user don't mean you should play cop. Let the admin decide, complain if you like, but keep your insufferable holy crusade for worthy topics.

[Lady Blacksword]

[Warren]

The server only stores the message. If the message is long enough, or if it includes a mime-type header, the server can drop the message, and not store it. Even if there was enough server resources available to do the kind of editing you're proposing, it would open the server admin to liability for editing the content of messages.

No one is playing cop. No one has the authority to enforce any rules.

If you've been following the thread you'd understand that there is no moderator, and the admin is only interested in how much server space is available.

Pointing out to folks what the customs are, and why they're the customs is not a holy crusade, and if it's insufferable, you're welcome ignore it. But ignore the societal customs at the peril of being insufferable yourself. You pointing out to me that you think I should keep my "insufferable holy crusade for worthy topics" is no different than how this all started. Someone advised someone else that they acted in a way that wasn't approved of. So are you playing cop now?

[Warren]

No one, until now, has been throwing blame about.

If she's run off because she was informed why something she did was not acceptable behavior, then that's her prerogative. All she needed to do was not post binaries, and turn-off the html -- and she did that. But

*she* made a big deal about it. The resp =I mean, whattaya gonna do, break my trowel? Banish me to the compost heap? =Forbid me to go cow pie picking next door in the pasture? Or ground me and =not allow me to play with the faeries?

She asked a question, too:

=and that sucking sound is the unmistakable sound of someone being a bit =anal. And just when does posting a JPG of a gardening wonder constitute =being frowned upon?

It was answered. It was after she got a reasonable answer that she decided to leave. She didn't leave, or even threaten to leave after being asked not to post binaries or html. She decided to leave after it was explained to her why she shouldn't.

So you want us to apologize to her for answering her question?

Staying away is her choice. Coming back will be her choice as well. She said,

=Despite just having to only correct the problem, =I think I need to back off for awhile

If this discussion is so pathetic, than it should stop. It should have stopped a day and a half ago, but obviously this topic is of great interest to people, including yourself, because it's been kept alive -- in two separate threads, no less -- by the people in the group. It's not crossposted, so we can't even blame outsiders. This "pathetic" discussion continues because people continue to show an interest in it.

[Janet Baraclough]

The message from "Lady Blacksword" contains these words:

You're mistaken. Nobody nagged her or ran her off, and her name is Marilyn not Maggie.

FYI, she has a history of posting " I'm in a stew and taking a break" when she needs some time to sort herself out.From experience, she'll recover her equilibrium and return to the group when she's ready.

Janet

[Travis]

The servers see the HTML as text because that is what it is.

There is no admin in usenet.

[Leon Trollski]

plonk, Warren. There is no value in tittle-tattle.