On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:30:23 -0500, David L. Martel wrote:
No burns allowed.
Plus, the smoke could kill my neighbors.
This is California in a high fire hazard high smog zone.
It's my understanding we can't even use a wood-burning fireplace
for half the year, but that's for smog reasons. So burning is out.
But chain sawing wasn't all that great either.
The chain saw splattered urushiol all over the place.
My hair was covered in wood chips, as was my face.
The rest of my body was covered, except at the wrists and
ankles and lower back (my shirt kept pulling up and the tangly
vines would lightly smack me in the back as I pulled on them).
I didn't want to use a chain saw, but I would have been
there forever had I used clippers - and I've been spraying
it for years - it's just too large for spraying.
Clippers would (eventually work), but even clippers won't cut
the 5-inch thick vines anyway - and simply pulling was
crazy (I tried that first) because all the vines are
I once rented a cultivator and tried to push my way through,
but the vines simply fouled the cultivator blades, and the
hardest part was unwrapping them without getting the
urushiol all over my hands (an almost impossible task).
And, now I have the problem with getting rid of it.
I labeled the bins, so I hope they take them on trash day.
So that's why I ask.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:07:03 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote:
It depends a LOT on what's in the milk, and, what your body does to it.
The entire process is complicated, and I don't profess to fully
But, it starts with urushiol & T cells.
The actual urushiol is a benzene ring with two hydroxides (i.e., a
catechol), with a specific alkyl group which is slightly different
depending on species (e.g., poison ivy = 15 carbon chain, poison oak = 17
carbon chain). This molecule is harmless, and it, in and of itself, does
not provoke the immune response.
The immune response is complicated in so much as the longer carbon chains
in poison oak sap appear to have a greater immune response than the
shorter ones of ivy ... and ... the more unsaturated the chain (i.e.,
double bonds), the more our immune systems react to it (at least it says
so in Wikipedia).
Once on the skin, the oil penetrates to the lower antigen-presenting
immune cells whose job is to capture foreign invaders and transport them
to the lymph notes to be presented as evidence to the specific white
blood cells which had matured in the thymus in front of your heart, and
which play a role in the cell mediated immune response.
Since T cells, which originate in the bone marrow, randomly mutate in the
thymus, some of those mutations select for "self" proteins. But that's
bad news for the body, so the thymus has a system for weeding out these
Unfortunately, what the thymus lets out are T cells who have receptors
that key for the quinole that the urushiol oxidizes to. Hence the rash.
Point is, this is a complicated mechanism, which, we have only two basic
approaches to combat:
1. Build up an immunity (i.e., don't create Tcells coded for the quinone)
2. Remove the quinone from the body as soon as you can
I'm working on the second approach ... you've resolved the first.
That looks like an incredible lot of work, and a risk of some wicked
allergic reaction. I've not yet reacted to poison ivy, but know friends who
are super sensetive.
With poison ivy, I'm told not to burn it, as the fire releases the poison
into the air, and anyone down wind will have allergic reaction. Not sure
about poison oak.
You have courage, and a lot of hard work. And, you have my respect. Wonder
if the local municipality has chipper shredders to do this job?
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
This weekend, I needed to remove a poison oak plant along
my property but the plant was too big and too much on a hill
for spraying; so I cut it with an 18" chainsaw and packed
it up for proper disposal.
After just two hours, I was covered in the poison oak oil
(my clothes came out of the wash all streaked black as if
the kids had taken a black marker to them) - but I had to
stop as the two recyling bins were jam packed to the brim.
Since I still have a few more poison oak plants to remove,
I'm wondering if you outdoor experts have a better way than
what I'm doing for removal of a poison oak plant from your
property? (The last picture is of me washing up!)
Here are 19 annotated pictures, taken sequentially.
I didn't measure it, but this one plant is about 20 feet long
(or so), by about 20 feet deep down a hill - but I only removed
about 5 feet along the curb as I ran out of room in the bins.
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:51:58 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I have a few red bubbly spots on me, but it's not too bad yet.
Mostly it's on my left wrist and right ankle and the back of my neck.
I'm very surprised my eyes don't itch since I kept getting chips caught
in my eye, and my camera & chainsaw have to be covered in urushiol too!
I cleaned the camera with rubbing alcohol (but I'm not sure if that
actually works) - but the strap needs cleaning somehow.
I looked it up in gory detail. NOBODY is ever immune.
Eventually everyone gets it (unless they die first). It's like being in
war. Just because the first bullets didn't get you doesn't mean your cell
mediated immune reactions won't at some point kick in and the next one is
the one you regret.
Note: Actually, I'm told people with AIDS don't get it, but that's a
Yes. I know. Inside your body, the immune reaction can kill you.
I called the waste company - they just told me they won't take it.
Luckily I have a 4-inch chipper, but it's a royal pain getting anything
down the chute (I'm sorry I bought that loud monstrosity).
Brush cutter / mower.. (rotary lawn mower on steroids)
Make sure the unit is powerful enough to handle the material size.
A large mower will chop material so disposal is at higher density or
chopped material could be left on ground.
Cutting path across hill face much faster than a chain saw.
Be prepared to follow up with the proper herbicide at the correct time
in the plant's yearly cycle.
True eradication is not a "one time" effort.
Geez if access to this area is limited just cut all the plants at the
base with a loping cutter, mark each location by driving a stake in
then when it begins to regrow, herbicide it heavily.
i had great success on poision ivy by mixing 50% roundup with 50%
poision ivy killer... they wilted by the next morning and just died...
either seperately was not effective:(
do not chip or BURN !! Burning smoke will give anyone in area poision
whatever in the lungs! can be life threatening!!
why work hard if you can work easy? the dead plants will eventually
rot, but will be a itch hazard till they have rotted away...
but the OP will have a much easier job
On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 08:05:32 -0800, bob haller wrote:
Trust me, I tried the weed killer.
Every year I buy this 2.5 gallon concentrated (41%) glyphosate (which is
a huge amount considering you dilute it 2 ounces to 5 gallons of water):
Notice those gloves in that picture are the ones I used on Sunday and
they're already starting to show the black urushiol lacquer, which only
reveals itself a day later (or after washing), presumably as it oxidizes.
The problem is that you need a helicopter to get the weed killer on the
leaves. Sure, I can spray the entire front by the curb, but how do I get
the spray 10 or 20 feet deep and down the very steep hillside?
A pressure washer, filled with glyphosate, might do the trick though!
I like the idea of a truck mounted sprayer.
But there will still be tons of poison oak in the inaccessible places
like this one I snapped just today about 100 feet below where the
pictures were taken yesterday.
I don't think a truck can get down there, unfortunately.
I bought such a Nomad sprayer on Ebay, for cleaning
jobs away from home. Worked reasonably well. I also
used it to pump pink antifreeze into RV water systems.
Might apply Roundup mix to these poison oaks. Ten foot
hose. I remember I was able to stand on the ground, and
spray water on top of my mobile home. Kind of fun.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Nobody is immune to cell mediated immunity.
I was sensitized to poison ivy way long ago as a kid.
I get it as badly as anyone does.
Now that I'm in California, it's poison oak.
But it still itches like crazy.
When I get it on my skin, and I don't wash it off, I am red and yellow
blisters and itching for weeks on end. Just like you are.
The problem is exacerbated when you see how much oil is in a single plant!
Look at this video, for example, of a 3-inch thick vine I cut today.
That's enough urushiol right there to poison every single human on the
planet! Talk about biological warfare!
PS: My camera is soaked in the stuff. I don't know how to clean it yet.
Or as my four-year-old sister said,
"There's no such thing of that, 'cause I never heard of it!"
They said no one is immune to smallpox--your lack of scar PROVES you
were never vaccinated. So they did it again.
Two years later, same argument, same result.
My sensitivity to poison oak DEcreased from 1967 to 1972. Don't know
why, but I've posted my hypothesis already.
When I first bought the property I live at, which is covered in Pacific
Poison Oak, I researched the Internet for weeks, trying to assess my
enemy. (Never underestimate your enemy when it's poison oak!)
One thing I learned is that the delayed cell mediated immune response to
urushiol is such that NOBODY is ever (truly) immune.
Sure, you might not get the rash this time. Maybe not next time. Maybe
not the next. Or the next after that. But, the physiology of the body's
immune response is such that everyone 'can' get it at any time after the
first exposure. Which is exactly what you found out! :)
What I do, by the way, after a severe exposure, is, instead of buying the
expensive IvyBlock/Technu/Zanfel/Prednisole regimen, is the following:
On Wed, 9 Jan 2013 06:44:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Yes, which is why I never play with poison ivy. One summer I had the
kid clean up some vines in the back yard. Nothing I hadn't done but I
didn't recognize the PI, either. I have never had a reaction to PI,
though I've never been one to tempt fate. He got a little rash but my
wife just touched his clothes, taking them from the floor and putting
them directly in the washer, came down with blister from head to toe.
She was one hurtin' pup for weeks.
Some time later I hired a handyman to cut down a tree by the road. We
knew it was loaded with PI, but he said it didn't bother him. Well
maybe it never had, but it sure did that time. He was in the
emergency room shortly after. Did I say that *I* didn't play with the
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