Fertilizer for slow growing plants

self-published promo literature for her compost tea company. You've as always done a terrible job of providing even moderately credible data of scientific origin. As promised, here is the:

REPOST WITH RELEVANT LINKS ON DR. INGHAM, HER FELLOW VENDORS' BEST-LOVED "EXPERT" ON COMPOST TEA:

Vendor Ingham posing as a scientific researcher set the standard for vendor-disseminated information. Ingham seems legitimately to have been mentally ill with some paranoid conspiracy theories on why her data couldn't be duplicated in any actual field study, so after several years of being a Big Cheese in a crooked industry, she finally became such an embarrassment she was by many simply cast to the wolves with some of her fellow vendors asserting that her tendency to falsification is an abberation & not the industry standard. She is not an aberration, & her "findings" are still the only ones the industry promulgates whether or not they attach her name to them.

The data to date supports compost teas as a tepid fertilizer & nothing more; its ability to enhance microorganisms is equal to the ability of regular watering to do so. Furthermore, though the vendors want you to believe aerating the tea is best & "safer" because non-aerated tea might be toxic, the few studies that indicate an unpredictable (so impractical) ability to deter disease as a foliar spray applies only to non-aerated teas. And it turns out aerated teas are MORE apt to contain harmful pathogens, rather than less apt as vendors of pricy equipment pretend, often on the basis of fraudulant sales-oriented "research" by the likes of Ingham.

Vendors want you to believe teas need aeration so that duped marks will pay $500 to $1,000 for special equipment to do for a high price what could be done for free & with no such equipment. By & large the whole fad for garden teas is hokum & what little good teas do is exceeded by any number of better metheds, such as organic compost topcoatings & sensible irrigation. And while the tepid fertilizer value of compost teas washes out of the soil with the first rain or the first regular watering, maintaining the soil with compost or leafmold topcoatings or other methods is a longlasting method.

If you have a compost barrel that saves the drippings, it does no harm to use that as the basis of a cost-free tea. But anyone spending money on equipment & tea mixes with the expectation that it is anything but the weakest possible fertilizer, they're duped marks & nothing more

In sum:

1) As a tepid fertilizer, okay, even though of less value than virtually any other method of soil restoration or improvement. 2) For disease control: it's an illusion. To quote University of Washington horitulturist Dr. Chalker-Scott: "In the peer-reviewed literature field-tested compost tea reported no difference in disease control between compost tea & water." 3) Never believe anything promulgated by vendors. There is no such thing as an honest garden tea vendor since the honest thing would be not to take people's money for useless equipment. It is ONLY profitable because bolstered with lies.

For assessment of the Lies of vendors vs the Realities, see:

For definitively wasteful & potentially harmful nature of teas, see:

How the fraud is perpetuated through half-truths & lies & workshops at nurseries all on the worst level of hucksterism:

My old report on Ingham's "tradition needs no science" looniness & paranoia, written a few months before the embarrassed industry began to jettison her as their chief divinity:

Ingham's easily lampooned loony-tunes letter that publicly revealed her magical anti-science thinking & her paranoid state of mind:

Any website invested in selling you stuff is not going to provide you with the actual data of compost teas harming ground water, leaching too quickly out of soils to be of any benefit, being in every regard inferior to a topcoating of mulching organic compost, NOT improving the microorganism content of soils, NOT repairing anaerobic soils, and for the most part not even hindering pathogenic organisms (no more than would a good soaking with pure water in any case).

Not everything labeled "organic" is a good or useful thing. Anyone who uses good organic compost & a regular watering schedule is doing much more for their garden than can be done with organic tea, & organic tea would not add anything additional, so it is a wasted inevestment of time & money & electricity (since vendors allege it has to be aerated), & even the cheaply made expensively sold plastic brewing equipment these flimflam artists foist on the public are manufactured at the highest level of pollution & waste with none of it being necessary.

The pro-Chemical lobby just hates it when "ecofundies" refuse to believe cancerous toxic chemicals are good for us & go all insane in defense of their PetroChemical fetish. It's unfortunate that greenies get just as fetishistic & up in arms when their favorite organic fad is found out to be 99.9% flimflam.

-paggers

Reply to
paghat
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Bayer Rose and Flower Care. Feeds and protects against insects in one easy step. Aphids are one of the insects it kills.

Reply to
Travis

Travis, you're getting sidetracked. Now Tom'll be able to make fun of your for implying insecticides are necessary to get rid of aphids. You missed entirely that in response to your request for scientific data favorable to compost tea, he provided promotional literature derived from crazy Elaine Ingham, who fabricates data strictly to promote her compost tea company. Tom's "best" science is vendor indoctrinating literature. By slight of hand he persistently avoids actual data & supplants it with vendor promo pieces by the likes of Steve Diver & Elaine Ingham.

I don't use insecticides & a little surprised you do. Very curiously, I've just never needed them! If I did come up against somethiung that couldn't be handled organically, I might be tempted by nasty toxins, who knows, but so far organic methods have been totally successful, while some of my chums who are not organic in their gardening approach have insect troubles all the time no matter how many chemicals they slather on everything.

-paghat the ratgirl

Reply to
paghat

Disulfoton is in that. Bad stuff. Even for non-organic gardeners, aphids are so easily gotten rid of it is not a great idea to use something extremely toxic to control a problem that a couple drops of dishwashing soap in water would do just as easily. Disulfoton is killing lots of benificial insects, for a net loss to the garden rather than a net gain. It contaminates water, injures fish & birds & mammals, is a carcinogen. I imagine the label warns not to use it anywhere near anything harvested to eat, & one reason to have roses is the rosehips are very useful in the kitchen. Are you convinced the roses would go all to hell if you didn't use such a product?

-paghat the ratgirl

Reply to
paghat

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:21:03 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (paghat) wrote: Sure Ingham is a whack, but she did some good work but got caught up in believing her own half truths. I also share your disappointment in ATTRA publishing her latest set of bullshit concepts.

That being said, I'm well aware of numerous successes here with compost tea. There are plenty of practitioners who are also seeing success. I will not throw out the baby with the bath water...compost tea works! To constantly site Chaulker-Scott's poorly done study is as silly as quoting Queen Elaine's fabrications. If you want some of the really damning posts on Ingham and here con look to her NZ adventure with the Green Party.....or her pretending to not be on the board of directors of companies whose products she tests sells and recommends.

Spending your time bantering about the nut does nothing to discredit the good work continuing to be done. Unfortunately I'll have to wait to laugh I remind you I told you so....compost tea does a better job of building soils than the exclusive use of composts....compost extract and EM (effective microorganisms) and biological soil development works....just not in your yard....

Reply to
Tom Jaszewski

Please keep us updated with regard to the congresspersons and ATTRA's response.

Reply to
Travis

I only use it on roses. It is all gone now and won't buy any more next year. I do use Neem oil and another Bayer product to try to control mites on my bamboo. If anyone knows the secret to controlling or eradicating bamboo mites *please* let me know.

Thanks

Reply to
Travis

See my other post.

Reply to
Travis

With the onset of the "chic" of organics, lately, it sure does seem there are many out there who are making false or unproven claims. I didn't read the data you provided, so I'm not sure if you posted scientific date to prove Ingham a wing nut, but it is compelling. Personally, my new style of gardening is to pull weeds, water when desperate to help specimens to flourish, cut things back a few times a summer, fertilize and that's about it. What survives, survives.

In the past I went through elaborate aerobic tea making and put out five gallons a week or so. My gardens were no better then than they are now, however, mine are not commercial and I really have no personal data. At least nothing scientifically collected data.

I have never used pesticides on my current property outside of the two times I used citrus oil for some major fire ant mounds. I have aphids in early spring on catch crops of gaura. They are always loaded (and I mean LOADED) with lady beetles in all stages of growth. It all strikes a balance. I'm glad there are people who are true to nature.

Victoria

Reply to
Bourne Identity

Proper watering, cultivation, fertilization, and hygiene. If you have mites on your bamboo, they are in some major type of stress. Major.

Victoria

Reply to
Bourne Identity

Is that how you get rid of the bamboo mites on your boo?

Reply to
Travis

I've never had mites on bamboo. However, I water properly when needed, I cultivate properly, fertilize appropriately and clean up broken, damaged or dead material from the ground. The plants are also adequetly mulched. I'm not being a smart alec, but because I'm organic, I have much less insect problems because I have green lacewings, and many other beneficial insects.

Victoria

Reply to
Bourne Identity

Compost tea to develop a soil food web capable of cycling nutrients in plant available forms...

Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.

-- Aldo Leopold

Reply to
Tom Jaszewski

Nothing like knowing what you are spraying.... Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.

-- Aldo Leopold

Reply to
Tom Jaszewski

How lucky you are to have mite free bamboo.

Reply to
Travis

I'll get right on it.

Reply to
Travis

I didn't feel like going outside and reading the label.

Reply to
Travis

one need only own a shovel.

Tom, with all due respect, microbes exist in all healthy soils and can be obtained with the application of healthy compost (not biosolids). Clearly, I did not use aerobic comnpost tea in '93 and when I stepped on a cultivator clear through my foot, I was infected with myriad mycobacterium for 18 months.

So, while aerobic compost tea is a tool, it is not THE answer to all gardening problems.

victoria

Reply to
Bourne Identity

It has nothing to do with luck. Did you not just read the method I use to make healthy the plants, which are no longer attractive to pest insects and mites? Or, did you discount it all so you can rationalize your use of pesticides which are outrageously toxic?

Hmmm.

Reply to
Bourne Identity

I do all those things.

Reply to
Travis

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