On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:28:08 +1000, "David Hare-Scott"
I have five apple trees growing on my property (that I know of) that
were obviously seeded from animal droppings, each produces different
fruit in abundance but not worth eating by humans, all small,
mishapen, dry, and extremely sour fruit... but the critters definitely
enjoy partaking. I toss apple cores from perfectly good fruit off my
back deck all the time, I've seen the deer eating their prizes. I'm
positive that's how those freak apple trees come to grow on my
property, probably from someone elses cores, I haven't been here long
enough for my cores to have produced such large trees... and critters
travel long distances to forage, those apple seeds could have come
from miles away. I had a great uncle whose hobby was growing
miniature landscapes is tiny pots, some in toothpaste caps, he would
plant the seeds from fruit he bought, apple, pear, citrus, they grew
and some even produced fruit, but none one would eat. You have better
odds of winning the lottery than of planting apple trees from seed
that produces edible fruit.
I have seen it in several places.
Here is one I can remember in which they say the following:
There are some 18,000 apple trees in the U of M's breeding orchards.
The university has one of the three largest apple breeding programs in
For every 10,000 trees, he may only get one producing apples good
enough for release.
The reference is as follows:
Notably, they are talking about apples good enough for release, but I
think this is an indication of the low success rate in growing
decent apples from seed. However, these guys are experts and are
picking out the best candidates to get even these meager results.
From same article:
Some even make the claim that the Rambo was "Johnny Appleseed's favorite
variety", ignoring that he had religious objections to grafting and
preferred wild apples to all named varieties. It appears most nurseries
are calling the tree the "Johnny Appleseed" variety, rather than a
Rambo. Unlike the mid-summer Rambo, the Johnny Appleseed variety ripens
in September and is a baking/applesauce variety similar to an Albemarle
So it appears, Johnny Appleseed did plant seeds, and was content to live
with the results.
Now you're being silly... also mentions how all JA trees are now from
grafts. Fact is that from other net sources much about JA is myth...
and fact is that way back then (when horticulture was barely hocus
pocus) apples were not eaten out of hand, they were used to make
booze... any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... the grape wine
folks pay big bucks for is made from grapes unsuitable to be eaten out
When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the worst
eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even need to be all
apples, add some currants for color... I once blew up a heavy duty 5
gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle making apple jack from dehy
apples and raisins (forgot to crack the vent).
Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from
Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of
However, the pioneers and farmers who used these
apple trees did not grow them for eating out of
hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider,
which disguises a lot of problems, or they were
used to feed the animals.
If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not the
same as eating apples.
The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of
cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical
Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not be
Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from
seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating.
Localised conditions can impact on progeny.
There are no hard fast rules about certain apples being better for
cider. Some are specifically designated as cider apples and for the
most part, they are not better for much else.
You obviously have different taste buds that most people. Quit
encouraging people to grow apples from seeds. It wastes their time
and is a big dissappointment after years of effort in raising them.
By the way, which varieties have you planted from seed that you think
came out ok?
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:13:09 -0500, sherwin dubren
Perhaps you just got unlucky... sometimes the tags drop off and then
reattached haphazardly... I've heard stories of privately owned
nursery personel going around sabotaging the big box nursery stock by
switching labels... don't know how true. But those big box plants
come from the same wholesale nurserys that supply the more expensive
privately owned nurseries. The only real benefit to buying fruit
trees from the privately owned nurseries is that they will often have
larger/older specimens that are burlap balled... the big box stores
typically sell young saplings in pots... but the trees are the same
quality. Fruit trees are the most inexpensive plants sold, they're
not big moneymakers regardless, a potted four year old sapling will
cost like $15, whereas a balled and burlapped six year old sapling
will cost $30, twice as much but not any fortune. Retail nurseries
don't even carry a large stock of fruit trees because the typical
homeowner may occasionally buy a couple but most buy none.. those that
don't get sold quickly become a total loss or once the planting time
has passed they are given away at cost (50% off). Commercial orchard
growers buy from the wholesalers and/or graft their own. I've
purchased plants from privately owned nurseries that were mislabled
too; gingko and holly come to mind, and many times veggies are
mislabeled... I've learned to buy my veggie plants half from one
nursery and half from another... too many times bell peppers turned
out to be jalopeno, and beefsteak tomato turned out to be yellow roma.
Even packets of seed can be mislabled, I've bought yellow crookneck
seed that turned out to be green pattypan.
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