Last question, I promise... the final plans for my deck, about 800 sf,
calls for a waterproof surface that will be tiled. Ok, that is a lot of
work, but Noble or Schluter will do the trick. But what about the framing,
should I go for pressure treated or just stay with DougFir? What about the
underside of the ply (sturdifloor) sheathing?
One end is about 8ft off grade, the other just 18inches, so I cannot easily
paint the entire framing after it is done. I also want this whole thing to
last 20yrs with little maintenance. Around here, (NorCal) PT is about 2x
the price. Termites are everywhere, but mostly subterranean ones.
What would you use for your own deck?
I did look into CorrectDeck for a while, expensive and not that pretty--but
I would know how to frame for that :-) I am hoping the tile will last if I
frame it like a tank and put in expansion joints, sheer membrane, etc.
Besides, I prefer the look.
Do you think tiles will crack even if properly built?
Looks good, never rots or splinters, no chemicals to leach, no real
maintenance (semi-annual cleaning).
Considering a wood deck should be sealed once a year, to could be less
expensive in the long run (did I mention it's a lot less work to maintain.)
Sounds like you may be talking about high quality composite decking
(rhino and the like). I would agree that it can look really nice though
I dont consider it "vinyl".
For environmental reasons we have used composite decking almost
exclusively for about 15 years now unless a customer wants to pay the
added cost for exotics. For a long time you could buy Mahoghany (Kayu)
decking for the same for the same money as high end composite but in the
past 5 years composites are far cheaper than most wood decking (other
than treated which isnt even in the same class)
Composites have many other advantages too, many are 100% recycled,
stability, and of course low maintenance. They also have disadvantages
in that they can be very prone to stains, dealing with expansion can be
a chore on long runs, and they dont often look good in winter months
with the joints all gapped out.
I guess the work "vinyl" is what threw me.
We have yet to use correct deck. It has seemed to us most of them are on
par with each other other than color, surface, and % recycled content.
Trex, Certainteed Boardwalk, Rhino, LP's WeatherBest, several in the
Timbertek line, are some of the ones we have been installing.
We just finished our second deck using Rhino and really like the new
woodgrains though they seem to scratch very easily. I was almost
exclusively using Certainteed Boardwalk because it was a smooth surface
not trying to simulate wood but it has become scarce in our area for
some reason. The smooth surfaces feel really nice under foot when you
are bare foot or sock footed. I have never been too keen on "non-wood"
materials trying to look like wood because it seems to always be a
problem with the homeowner. That said, the rhino and new timbertek
textures seem to look nice.
The bonus to the woodgrain is that unless you do a flawless job
installing the smooth surface products goofs or blemishes stick out
something awful on such a uniform/monolithic deck surface. The woodgrain
products offer a bit more of a fudge factor in that they confuse the eye
a bit for you.
Yes, and it's still inert. Smell does not equal leaching. The smell of vinyl
right after it's molded is a function of curing. After its cured, it's
totally inert. This is NOT true of treated wood. It's salts and chemicals
will leach out for many, many years.
I simpler analogy would be to ask, what would you rather use for drainage
piping, PVC or treated wood?
It will outlast wood by decades, never splits or rots (unless abused,
whereas wood will crack and split by nature), does not leach chemicals
(whereas treated wood will leach, and in most cases are poisonous). As far
as looks, look at the 'wood colored/textured' vinyl. Looks & feels (within
reason) just like real wood.
I've had wood decks and now vinyl. There is no comparison as far as ease and
maintenance. It looks good (I do not like the white plastic, but I could
live with it), and I would not hesitate to use it on my next house. Wood is
a pain to care for after it's a few year old. Splinters, stains, cleaning,
etc., it's just not worth the time and effort when a more advance product is
Though it doesnt apply to decking, there are studies now clearly showing
that plastics do leach. Its why we have recently been hearing murmurings
from the scientific and medical industry about not reusing plastic jugs,
not to consume drinking water from plastic jugs and bottles left in the
sun (on the dash or seat of your car) and so on. Many plastics do infact
leach. Many of these materials, once in your body, will be there forever
as your body has absoutely no capability to rid itself of them. Only
time will tell what the long term effects of them will be but I have a
pretty good feeling it wont be good. I am sure the industry already
knows this and this is why there are all sorts of "dont reuse this
bottle" labels that werent there 5 years ago.
That's a sizeable deck to tile, but in my case, I have a small over
room deck that is going to be tiled. I put pressure treated ply--I
know I got a lump in my throat over the price relative to exterior
ply--but I didn't want any problems for the next century with rot or
termites. I'm going to hot mop over the plywood and then create a
mortar base for the tile. Hot mop is worth the expense for
durability. I put a 1/4" per foot slope to a gutter. If you are
going to save money on the subfloor, I'd certainly soak the heck out
of it with Jasco wood preservative, then paint with Kiltz undercoat,
and finally put a good quality acrylic exterior color coat.
Great suggestions, thanks.
A mud job, especially one that big, is beyond my skill level. So I was
planning to go with 2 layers of 3/4" T&G under some exterior CBU then a
waterproof membrane, followed by tile. The plywood flooring is $19/sheet
around here but the PT is $50--ouch. I am still not clear whether primed
and painted joists are sufficient for a long life, given the waterproofing,
or whether I should go with PT joists too.
If the framing is exposed to the weather, then you might have to used
treated lumber to meet code requirements. In our area deck framing
must be treated now. The price of hot mop is surprisingly cheap given
the messing asphalt that the guys work with. If you use treated
lumber for the framing, and do a hot mop over preserved and painted
exterior grade plywood, you should have a structure to last a long
time. But, the treated ply is even better. In my case, I only needed
2 4x8 sheets, so the price factor was easy to dismiss as the price of
wanting something that won't rot as long as I'm alive.
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