Hello
Years ago I got the impression from somewhere or other that diluted bleach works best if the water is cold. I don't know where I got this idea, but I'm wondering now if it has any truth in it?
I'm about to start a job for which warm water with the bleach will be appropriate, but will the bleach be okay in the warm water, will it still be doing its thing?
It depends on what you are trying to clean whether to use hot or cold water. For most jobs, warm or hot water cleans much better than cold water. If you are using bleach in warm water, it should clean better than bleach in cold water. Bleach loses its shelf life when the temperature is raised, but if used within a few hours it should not matter. To rinse off the item washed in bleach, cold water is generally more effective than hot water.
Chlorine based bleach is a very nearly worthless cleaner. However, the chlorine does a fair job at oxidizing things--in the absence of organic matter, which ties up the chlorine.
As heat expands the water molecules, the chlorine is squeezed out [driven off]. Therefore, processes involving a chlorine solution are incompatible with elevated temperatures. The process still occurs, and perhaps at an accelerated rate, but the effective life of the chlorine solution is drastically shortened.
Where the action of heat and chlorine are needed, the process needs to be split into two steps. As in example, healthcare facility laundry involves a high temperature wash cycle, but the bleaching cycle is done in cold water (in the absence of most organic matter).
Best wishes on your new job.
Michael
When I die, I want to go where dogs go!
x-no-archive: yes
Wow, I never knew that. So if I'm looking for disinfection would I be better off just washing in hot water with no bleach or washing in cold and using bleach?
Bonnie
I hadn't heard that before. I've found two sources who say that. One is the Red Cross. They say to purify water you should filter, then boil, then add a few drops of bleach per gallon. They say it won't work unless you let the water cool before adding the bleach.
I think this may be misinformation. If they really had data, wouldn't they be able to recommend a maximum temperature?
Another source says the water shouldn't be above 120 F. I'm doubtful because their agrument is wrong. They say sodium hypochlorite has a limited shelf life because the chlorine evaporates. Wrong! Sodium hypochlorite is oxygenated table salt. It can break down chemically in the bottle, especially if it's contaminated with metal from the manufacturing process. In that case, the oxygen comes off and the salt remains.
They say the shelf life of bleach depends on the storage temperature, and that's why the water shouldn't be too hot when you use it. They're talking about a shelf life of months or years, and temperature has a fairly small effect. When you use it, you don't need it to last for months unless you are a very slow worker. Besides, the bleach has to break down and release oxygen to kill germs.
Normally it's the oxygen from the bleach that oxidizes.
Bleach bottles have warnings that acids can cause sodium hypochlorite to release chlorine. I've never seen a warning that heat can cause this.
The bleach sanitizes best in the rinse because, as you say, you have washed away organic matter that might neutralize the bleach. I think they rinse with cold because hot water would waste money.
A friend has worked at a restaurant for many years. They wash and rinse to remove organic matter from dishes. Then they dip in a dilute bleach solution to sanitize. Their bleach rinse is warm. The Health Department is fussy about the bleach concentration, but the temperature doesn't seen to matter.
Bleach reacts faster in warm water. What are you using the bleach mix for in your new job? Talking of disinfectant - does anyone ever use the other type bottled antiseptic or disinfectant for cleaning these days? I like the pine ones
I've been trying to think of the chemical term that says a reaction occurs "X times faster with each degree in temperature", but I just don't recall. Maybe the "Q ten law."
In the cases of chlorine, the temperature increase also drives off the chlorine faster.
There are many "types" of bottled disinfectants; only four or so are offered to the public. I like the hospital smell and bacteriostatic effect of the amber Lysol (a phenolic), but prefer the clean scent and safety of their blue version (a quaternary ammonium chloride). The one I still want to try is designed for kennel use: "Virkon S", marketed in the USA as "Trifectant". It's a relatively new class of disinfectant.
I like the pine scented products, too, but you shouldn't depend on them for disinfection. I bought some pine scented disinfectant for the first nursing home I worked for. The administrator said it made the facility smell like a car service station; so, I never used it again. Besides, it really wasn't suitable for healthcare use. Michael When I die, I want to go where dogs go!
similar to the Arrhenius equation maybe?
Thank you, very much, Dawn! Yes, I believe "Arrhenius equation" is it! I'm certain I knew it by a different name, but the principle sounds exact. Increasing the heat does increase the rate of a reaction.
From:
In regards to a chlorine solution, heat expands and exposes the surfaces being reacted upon, on a molecular level; so, cleaning occurs more efficiently. I'd label that a "chemical reaction." But, chlorine, a gas, is also driven off, by increased heat. It's literally crowed out by expanded water molecules. I think this would be more of a physical reaction.
Help! Phisherman, Dr. Clean!? Am I stating any of this correctly?
Humor--> A long time ago (many months) in one of the dog-related groups, it was stated that household bleach contains lye {sodium hydroxide}. That was horrible news, since bleach is a common disinfectant in animal shelters. It was so funny, and somewhat sad, to read the frantic posts! :-) As it happens, sodium hydroxide is dumped in the pot to make bleach, but it reaches a point where it is broken down and recombined with other components (water and salt, I think). So, the lye ceases to exist, if the reaction is able to reach its logical end.
Michael When I die, I want to go where dogs go!
Energy generally increases the chance of a chemical reaction. This energy of activation can be in the form of heat, ultraviolet light, pressure, electricity, or radioactivity. Catalysts can also cause reactions to take place at lower temperatures. If you want to remove a dissolved gas from solution or add a salt to solution, you can raise the temperature. (This is why uncapped soda pop quickly loses its fizz if not refrigerated.)
Purchase household bleach in small quantities that can be used within a few weeks, and store in a cool dark place. The cleaning/disinfecting properties of household bleach is due to a powerful chemical reaction. For safety reasons, it is always better to use less rather than more bleach for cleaning. Always handle household bleach with care. BTW, iodine and bromine have similar properties to that of chlorine, all halogens.
What's wrong with the explanation you quoted? Higher temperatures mean more molecular collisions with higher kinetic energy. When a soap molecule or a hydroxyl ion in an alkaline solution (such as Clorox) latches onto an oily molecule, I'd call that a chemical reaction. It will happen better in a hot bath (105 F) than a cold one (90 F). I don't think a person's skin is much bigger at the former temperature than the latter.
If hot water has less space, it stands to reason that one could dissolve more sugar or salt in ice-cold water than in boiling-hot water.
As water is heated, there is room for dissolved gas, but the gas molecules pick up enough speed to fly away.
Anyway, who cleans with a chlorine solution? Sodium hypochlorite is a compound, like table salt. I often throw salt into boiling water and have never noticed any chlorine fumes.
How do you know they haven't been paid off?
Unless it's very dilute, household bleach is almost as alkaline as lye; I think that can be more dangerous than its bleaching potential.
Sodium hypochlorite has sodium ions and water has hydroxyl ions. This means a bleach solution will contain lye even if it was manufactured without lye. Besides, I think manufacturers add a tiny bit of lye these days to improve shelf life. In England they add a lot of lye.
On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:26:25 +0100, Sweep wrote (in message ):
Hi
First I'd like to thank all the people who've given such good info on this subject. It is surprising how interesting it is!
I have done the job now and I used the bleach in warm water. I put the bleach in the warm water and did the job immediately. The whole job took about 5 or
6 hours.What I was doing was cleaning the walls of my toilet (NB in the UK we refer to a room containing a lavatory as the "toilet", whereas in the US this I think is sometimes called a bathroom, I do have a bathroom as well actually, but that has a bath in it). I had removed the wallpaper using a steamer device for that purpose, but this had left the wallpaper glue all over the walls, so I wanted to remove that glue and thoroughly disinfect the walls at the same time.
The warm water removed the glue, and the bleach did the disinfecting. At least that's what I've hoped has happened :)
After some repairs have been carried out on the walls I will wash them once again with sugar soap and then paint them, but I won't be able to do that for a few months I don't think.
SNAP! I've spent the last two weeks doing the downstairs toilet or 'cloakroom' as some say. I also did wallpaper stripping with a steamer. I then washed the walls with hot water with soda and washing up liquid with a bit of cream cleaner on a scourer in some places. It's come up quite well. I've polyfilled a fair bit, retiled and put two coats of emulsion on the walls and half a dozen coats on the ceiling and not ten minutes ago finished the final coat of gloss on the wood. Cleaning the brushes afterwards is the job I hate most.
On Tue, 11 May 2004 0:47:34 +0100, Dawn wrote (in message ):
Hi
Yes I hate that part, but I have developed a technique for cleaning brushes which is to use a fork. In fact I keep a fork specifically for this purpose with my brushes. I put the brush in a bowl of thinners (name for thinners might be different in US), if it is gloss, hold the handle of the brush in my left hand and use the fork with my right hand to "comb" out the paint.
Great idea! I have a paint comb made specifically for cleaning paint brushes. Cleaning brushes takes time. I have a few expensive brushes, but I also have a box of disposable brushes.
I didn't realise that white spirits was subject to licensing laws so I bought a turps substitute. It worked ok but I then saw the paint was a gloss that washes out in soapy water anyway!
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