"Don" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news5.newsguy.com:
The beach sounds good to me - bring a hibachi, some burgers, and a keg.
At least it keeps your mind off of February (the years I lived up North, I always found Feb to be the worst month - coldest, worst weather, on top of the fact that, by Feb, I was fed up with Winter). THis way, you have an excuse to drink a lot of champagne ;)
I'm speaking about _true_ love though. Is it really a choice? Is there such a thing?
Maybe it's more of an inner-dialoge?
Reminds me of a letter I wrote recently for someone. Here's a clip: "...what if we were imperceptibly and gradually stolen from one world, and placed into another, different world-- one that appeared the same? Would we notice, or lose ourselves, being replaced by a reflection of the new world and of those in it? What if we then happened by chance upon one of our own, or vice-versa? How would we even know?"
Reminds me also of a line from The Matrix: "Have you ever had a dream... that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"
How do you wake someone loved up? What if they aren't ready? What do you do if they go for the "blue pill"?
...Unfortunately, there were times when I wasn't ready... Maybe there's indeed something to be said about not giving up one's pursuit.
And then they're single again and saddled with children of men they don't love. ...Children of Men-- another good film.
If you're a person, then maybe you do have an intuitive, if possibly never-provable, understanding of them.
Warm Worm wrote in news:fp57h8$5m1$ snipped-for-privacy@aioe.org:
That's what I'm talking about. Although, even there, what is true love? I once described, to ashrink, something like what Don had emntioned re: feelign respnisible for part of the otehr person's wlfare, and the like, even tho' the "fires of passion" turn more to embers as a relationship matures - and the reply I got was "It sounds like your more co-dependent, than in love".
True love is love that endures, IMO - beypnd that, I'm not sure it can really be defined. Or, if it can, the definition IMO is more like a parts list, and there is that old saw about somehting being "more than the sum of its parts".
It depends upon the person, I guess, but "inner dialogue" would probably work in many (most?) cases.
In a sense, that is what happens a lot. You come into the world with various abilities and talents, as well as charcteristics which will come to influence what you enjoy, and what you dislike. As you grow, a great deal of influence is exerted by your immediate surroundings, ebcause a human is a combination of inborn tendencies, and extreme plasticity - i.e., learning is vital to development.
The problem is that, all too often, that which is inborn is ignored/rejected by other people, and a life-long process begins wherein those other people try to replace who you were born to be, with what
*they wish* you to be. Part of it is passive, in that they only expose you to a certain set of conditions; part of it is active, wherein they literally punish you for being "disobediant/rebellious" fi you choose to follow your inner voice as opposed to following their voices.So, yes, IMO your letter well describes what happens to a great many people during their lives.
I don't knwo what the "blue pill" is, sorry. As for the waking part, the person has forst to *want* to realize theyr'e alseep. Second, you have to be sure that you yourself are actualyl, so to speak, awake. IOW< we all experience what we believe to be reality, but there is no guarantee that someone else's reality will significantly overlap with our own, nor I there a guarantee that, if/once realties overlap, that the state will remain constant.
It's all very difficult to navigate. I have no solid answers - in a sense, we each have to find our own Northern Star or Southern Cross, and learn to adjust to the vagarie of our individual compasses.
Maybe th eproblem is with the very word/concept of 'pursuit'. THere is a saying, I think it's form Zen Buddhism but nto sure, to teh effect that happiness is a butterfly which can elude all our efforts to capture it, yet suddely land on us if we sit still. The same could be said of love.
One problem of 'pursuit' is that it can often induce flight.
It doesn't just apply to women. I specificaly avoided gender-specific language. But a lot fo people feel a duty to stick with bad (sometimes horrible) marriages out of a sense of duty, ore religious guilt, or who knows what else. They suffer, but the children also suffer.
Also, taht part abotu "saddled with children of men they don't love" sticks in my craw, to be honest. If a person merely feels "saddeld" by children, they ought to give them up for adoption by people who will not force that burden onto the children, i.e. the burden of knowing they are seen as little else than a burden.
One's love for one's child should **not** be dependent upon one's relationship with the pther parent - first off, it takes two to tango, so, regardlessof whetehr one felt pressured to marry and/or have sex, the facts remain that (1) the "burdened/saddled" person was also a participant int he creation fo the child, and (2) the child was in no way responsible for the actions of the adults - or, as it's said, the child "didn't ask to be born". IF the child is the result of rape, again, if one cannot lve the child or set aside one's resentment, far better to elt soem adopt the child who doesn't carry that baggage.
I grew up with th e burden of being seen as nothing more than a burden/"duty", so, sorry if it sounds rude, but IMO, that attitude just sucks dead rat winky.
I'm not familar with it.
Only to a limited extent - I have to rely heavily upon analysis, and make up "rules" for myself (as in, observe situation A and how people behave and expect others to behave; when sitution B occurs, observe and analyse for similarities to situation A - if similarities exist, adapt rules for A to B, if not similar, observe and analyse behaviors for the new situation B). UNderstanding through analysis, not through "social instinct" or "interpersonal intuition". Maybe better, maybe worse, I can't say, I can only say that, for me, it's what resources I've got and therefore, what I must work with. Which is why I point out that, esp. given the general (obtuse?) nature of the thread, I cannto offer any "wisdom" and certainly no advice, jsut theory based upon expereince, observation, and analysis.
"Don" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news5.newsguy.com:
Vaguely - never had it, tho'.
Moveis - a whole 'nother topic. These days, "drama" seems to be characterized by barely-sudible, almost sotto voce, dialogue, and *LOUD* music/sound effects - I just about sprain my thumb from having to constantly adjust the volume control =>:-/
Maybe it's that butterfly landing on you. Maybe it's recognition of yourself in another person-- a butterfly of your wing, a bird of your feather.
Perhaps love's expressions can include co-dependence-- as a non-derogatory term.
I've heard that love is part of survival. If true love is something that endures, then that seems to suggest that it needs to fit with who you are-- that it needs to endure as long as you're around. Its prerequisites seem to be a good understanding and love of self, and of another, and relative to.
Indeed... Love appears like art. There also seems to be quite a bit of each in each other.
Or an inner-debate: Perhaps the heart somehow knows the truth, but has to continuously "socially-uncondition" the mind to avoid a tragedy-of-illusion, whereby the wrong person is "loved" for the wrong reasons.
Another tragedy-of-illusion manifests itself as the women who get augmentation-surgeries to appeal to the wrong men for them-- to appeal to what they mistakenly believe-- via another form of illusion brought upon by the promotion, deliberate or not, of the whims and tastes of the media-moguls-- that it must be what "most men prefer".
Here's another part of my letter:
"How would you communicate and connect with a very rare member of your tribe who was stolen from you, and drugged? How would you be able to find out more about her to be sure? How could you wrest her from her sociocultural captors to join her again for as much as and as long as you were able?"
On the line of sci-fi again, this reminded me as I was writing it of a Star-Trek:Voyageur episode-- one of my favourites-- where the crew were kidnapped, drugged, and placed in, and oblivious to, completely new surroundings. If memory serves, it was a tall order to rescue them (they didn't want to be rescued, so far-gone they were), and the attempt nearly failed.
The blue pill is a metaphor for the failure in helping someone decide to "wake up".
To me, the media is a metaphor for elements of what the matrix is in The Matrix. Those of the "mainstream" media and other "power-brokers" control thinking.
Ironically enough, someone who I've thought about with regard to this post, did a thesis on a branch of the media, and I'm going to try to obtain a copy.
alseep. Second, you have
As you can figure, there are forms of reality that I'm ok with, and others that I'm against.
Assuming our stars and crosses are actually where we _think_ they are.
And I ripped them off because I wanted her to stay (still don't know why I did that...)
Now she's just like a dead bird, lying on the street.
...When the home-made paper wings didn't work, She gave me a picture of angels that had white silk wings...
I got the idea, and pushed her down the cliff...
She hit the ground and died.
I was hoping to see her fly away, with the brand-new white wings,
But I didn't see anything.
She was just like a dead bird lying on the street.
Maybe I was wrong...
Maybe she just wanted to show me a pretty picture of angel wings...
-- "I Met A Girl With Butterfly Wings"
"Don" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news5.newsguy.com:
[snipped]Hmm, designing furniture that looks like your house ;) Why not? Post pics if you can get to finish it.
Gives me a mental picture of goign inside of building and seeing a scale model, which is actually a functional unit - maybe storage, mabye the Reception area, whatever. Or making a Moebius Loop building...OK, that idea is pretty weird ;) (But it *could* also be cool...)
Another thing I've liked in some cases is old Adobes which have benches and storage and so on actually sculpted in as part of the house itself, so it' an organic whole.
What/Who were you looking for, what were the strategies involved, and was it different from what it would be now if you were single again, and how would it be if so? IOW, can, say, your concepts of, and capacities for love, evolve along with your age and experience, and would the results and the resulting person chosen be different? And who chooses who?
Makes sense.
That's an interesting take and seems to have some relevance to my above questions.
Traumatic.
Just got it and will be viewing it shortly.
intended before falling in love with her. >>
Understood, although I suppose that the time component might be "adaptively re-usable"-- a love template.
For each successive generation, everything has to be re-taught/learned... Everything's new again. I wonder if it will ever be possible to upload knowledge or wisdom into a brain.
Better safe than sorry I suppose, but the above seems all part of life anyway, part of the experience of learning and making mistakes along the way. If regret is part and parcel of that, where flops are rites-of-passage, then maybe there shouldn't be any regret.
It looks that way... Many people seem too scared to ask, say, know, or experience.
Should I be so lucky... Thanks for the thoughtful replies, BTW. I had a rough week, but feel better.
Ah yes, Rush (I assume)... Good production, sound, and a decent tune.
...A ghost of a chance ay?
(flips coin)
Yes I noticed that too, and I do the same thing with the volume. :D
"Edgar" wrote in news:47b481d8$0$27883$ snipped-for-privacy@free.teranews.com:
THat's IMO part fo the whole insanity wiht it. In terms of the legalities, marriage is a contract, pure an dsimple. As with any other conttract, poeple can bend it or ignore it, and penalities exist for breaking it, unless both parties agree to an amicable dissolution. Basically, IMO, it's also a contract that exists mostly because so few peole are trustworthy when it comes to sharing prpoerty - too many have the motto: "what's mine is mine - and what's yours is mine, too". But there is never *any* "guarantee" that either party (or both!) will adhere to the terms of the contract.
As for moral and emotional concerns, tehy're added over and above the contract, and do not require a contract to exist - two peole can be completely committd to each other, and never have a contract; OTOH, two people can have a contract, and no commitment whatsoever.
Deopel talk about th e"sanctity" of marriage. btu that is a religious terms and has nothing to do with th elegal realities - whatever sanctity might surround a relationship, it comes fromt eh people involved, not this ro that "authority" or bureaucracy.
"Don" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news5.newsguy.com:
Er, historically, as in, long-term history as opposed to part fo 19th, and of 20th century history, marrige has been about property, and keeping property with families, more than about personal relationships. Property and propagation of the family line, with chastity being a female "virtue" rather than a male one (since you always know who your motehr is, but rigorous social controls are set up to supposedly "guarnatee" who one's father is...).
Actually, social strictures have been, to some extent, preplaced by laws, but all in all, it's *much* looser than it was even when we were kids.
No, sorry, that's inaccurate. THere are a bunch if implicit legal restrictions and allowances, it's just that few people ever actually read them. I'd have ot look it up myself, but there are implict, but very real, legalities that are part and parcel of getting married.
Thsi is true. If people don't marry, they really ought to go ahead and meet with an attorney so as to have as much in writing as is possible. There is no right to inheritance, for example, which, depending upon one's situation, can be either good, or bad. If the people are odler, and want to be sure that, should they die, their property/money will only fo to their ownkids, then marriage is often not really a good choice. I don;t remember the details but I remember reading and hearing about various reasons for seniors to *not* get married.
But again, ti all has to do with the fact that thre are definite legalities that come along with getting married.
No, but it unfortunately does have increasing weight when it comes ti
*making* law - being more or less unfortunate depending upon ow closely your own religion or spiritual beleifs coincide with those of the epople influencing the creation and/or modification of laws...Sure, because of the money involved. Andteh desire for the parties to wreak vengeance upon the one whom each perceives as being "to blame".
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