The lack of ability to communicate in this thread is sad in a way.
Not unforeseeable, but sad. There's so much idealized romanticizing
of how things were in the past. Ken and Don are pulling away from
people, moving to more remote parts, in an attempt to insure that
every little thing is just the way they like it, and WW is attempting
to become part of a community with the idea that he might like it.
There's no 'wrong' here, but there is the question of openness.
If someone starts something new with a fresh mind and hopes of
enjoying the experience, the odds are pretty good that they will.
Will it be perfect? Dumb question, but it'll be as good as they
need. If someone goes into something with preconceived notions of how
it will be and waiting for things to go South, well, of course they
will. It's such a cliche that people don't even hear it anymore when
someone says that you should be open to life. It's a mindset that can
easily make any encounter in a pleasing/satisfying one.
The idea that anyone in this day and age really has a clue what it was
like to live totally on their own is an odd one, yet that's what
people desire, or at least talk about it. People talk about wanting
to be independent, and captain of their own ship. They want to be
rough and ready and self sufficient.
There are rare birds that spin their own cloth, and make their own
butter, that hack down some trees when they need some heat, a wing on
the cabin or a new boat, but the vast majority pine for days that
existed only in their imagination. People came together into groups
and communities for reasons not solely limited to whelping and
safety. People enjoy the fruits of communal living. Mary makes some
killer jam, and Steve can work wonders with wood. That's one sound
basis. How about sitting around a fire and singing - anyone ever do
that by themselves? Not exactly what most people would consider fun.
But toss in a couple of other people, maybe fifty, and it becomes
fun. It becomes an event.
And that is what people really want out of life. They want events to
mark the passage of their brief lives. They want people that can make
them think, make them laugh and surprise them. That doesn't happen
nearly as often with very small familial groups. It's the strange in
life that makes it interesting. If you try to control everything,
you'll kill the interesting unless you have a very limited definition
of interesting. The idea of whose beer is it is silly. It's a
concern, but it's not a big one. Communities invite people in, and
ask people to leave. It's called accountability. I don't have a
problem with that.
If you're married and have a family, you're already in a community,
and you already know about all of the pitfalls and benefits. You
already know that people rarely do exactly what you want, and that
that's okay. I don't see why that mentality can't be extended towards
people that don't share a bloodline.
Awhile back Rico you mentioned that I am still an outsider here and
you are correct.
I've been here about 4.5 years now and that fact is apparent almost
But the distance between 4.5 years and forever is becoming smaller
Two months ago my neighbor across the road, Muff, had his 50th
birthday party and we were invited and all of his extended family and
many of his friends were there and he made it his job to introduce us
to all of them. It was interesting, especially with 2 kegs of Coors on
hand. I don't drink but that night I did, about 18 of them if my
memory serves. At the end of the night we all went back to our tracts.
Thats the nice part, we don't have to put up with each other if we
don't want to - we have enough space between us to avoid friction.
Since that night I have seen several of those partiers out and about
and we exchange howdy's and small talk and our networks have been
further reinforced. You are correct in that no man is an island, for
very long, and I understand that and never wanted that. Nor do I want
to cohabitate with people less than 20 feet from me for the rest of my
life like I was forced to do in Florida. No kidding, I have looked out
my bathroom window in FL many times and saw someone looking back at
me, from less than 20 feet away. Unnerving. I like some space. I'm
estimating it is around 600-800 feet from Muff's front door to mine as
the crow flies and its similar with the other 2 neighbors around me,
give or take. The neighbor behind us is more than a mile away.
I'm wanting some (junk) bicycles for a project I want to create and
have been watching all of the usual sources. Well just today one of
the people I met at the party dropped in at my place of business and
asked if I would create some things on my lathe for him. He learned
about my lathe at the party. I told him I would and in the lengthy
conversation about this and that I told him about my project and that
I'm looking for bikes. As it turns out he has 2 bikes in the barn that
his kids have outgrown and I was welcome to them. A little more chit
chat and a deal was struck. I am going to turn 20 walnut carrying
handles for some WWI vintage watercooled 30 caliber machine guns he
and some of his friends collect and I am going to get 2 24" mountain
bikes. What a deal.
But you know what? 600-800 feet may not be enough.
Coming from suburbania to ruralville, 600-800 seemed enough, but now
the goalposts have moved. I am now ruralated in my mind and body so I
naturally have a different perspective. I'm seeing signs of what I'll
call *societal creep*. Thats where some of the things I detest which
are associated with suburban and urban areas are making their cameo
appearance around here. There is only 1 fast food joint in this whole
county, a McDonalds, and it is more than 8 miles from my house, but
this past week I have seen 3 instances of McDonalds trash on the road
I live along. 3 times this week people have been driving on my road
and found it necessary to throw their entire set of McDonalds trash
out on the road. What in the hell is wrong with people? Last week at
3:30am I woke up and was wide awake so I went ahead and got up and got
dressed, then I went outside in the low 30's weather and went for a
stroll down through the woods behind our house. Well just as I was
walking out the front door, here comes a loud assed truck down the
hill at 50mph not giving one shit about the people that were sleeping.
I have more examples of this *societal creep* but my point is made. It
may be time for us to move on. Interestingly enough, my wife posed
this to me about 3 or 4 months ago and emailed me a link to a fixer-
upper in Utah for $70k, which we could purchase outright, move into
it, fix it up and rent the house we currently reside in to others for
some buffer coin. I've looked at this Utah house on Earth Google and
there is plenty of distance from all of the neighbors, more than a
5 years ago, when I turned 50, I realized, finally, that I am never
going to be a rock star, I am never going to be wealthy, I am never
going to have sex with more than 3 females at one time, and I am never
going to be world famous. So I turned inward and decided to go for the
only thing that is really tangible, my peace of mind. But is that
permanently attainable? Maybe not, but I'm going to keep trying, and
all along the way I'm going to cultivate friendships and help as many
people as I can, cause that's just the way I do stuff.
Then there's that nasty human trait - laziness - that must always be
This was prevalent back in the 60's in the hippie commune days.
Nobody wanted to do anything and everything fell into a state of
I think it was Paul Hirst, 3dPeruna, that stated something about the
number of people involved effects the overall performance.
That is, the more people involved the greater the chance of
I suppose that that is why, over the longview, the (married) couple
has been the most successful joint venture - the least amount of
people working toward a common goal. As a rule I mainly resist
*groups* and the larger the group the more I resist. I am in a
woodworker group with about 30 members total and there is mainly chaos
cause nobody is in control, or rather, everybody thinks they are in
control. I rarely attend the meetings because of this. I am also
involved in a joint venture with one other person that has lasted for
almost 3 decades and it has been successful because both parties know
the rules and responsibilties and adhere to them strictly.
On Wed, 3 Nov 2010 09:40:59 -0700 (PDT), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
Do you have any idea what happens with the residue from your local sewage
Revenue generated from sales to farmers goes a long ways to keeping your service
Granted, it is treated to neutralize potentially hazardous micro-organisms
(certain bacteria, etc.).
I do know that waste from high cantagion risk veterinary facilities is boiled
before it goes into the sewer for the safety of sewage treatment plant
I've heard some things, none of which I like.
I was speaking though on a more personal level, such as that from a
book titled "Humanure", look it up.
I think is available as a free download and I have it somewhere on one
of my hard drives.
My problem, at that level, is that we are largely forced to consume
food that has many unneccassary and harmful chemicals in it so using
the human manure to fertilize food seems to compound the problem.
If one could manipulate their environment so as to consume only
natural foods then perhaps the humanure method would work, once you
get past the psychological part.
And you don't have to pay attention much to see all sorts of people
including you in their scenarios.
Next thing you know they're demanding you pay *your fair share* for
the restitution or whatever.
Go collect it from the *we* they were talking about earlier.
It's another one of them weasel words invented by spineless cowards
too scared to say what they really mean.
Another one: *society*
Look how that word has been manipulated completely out of context so
that it doesn't mean anything anymore.
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