Currency Climate

[Warm Worm]

What's your net worth?

(Do you have a net? ;)

Virtual run on the bank (dec. 7th. 2010, France, maybe other countries)

----------------- Financial "war":

Quote from video:

"09. November 2010:

There is no possibility of agreement at the upcoming G20 summit because the U.S. is declaring financial war on other countries, believes American economist and wall street analyst Prof. Dr. Michael Hudson.

The U.S. has been pushing China to revalue its currency -- at a time when Washington has been pumping billions of dollars into its economy

-- a move viewed by other countries as an attempt to deliberately weaken the greenback.

The issue of exchange rates is expected to be one of the toughest discussion points at the G20 summit in South Korea later this week.

Michael Hudson, a renowned economist and Wall Street financial analyst and advisor, says the meeting in Seoul will not bring an end to global currency wars.

'The U.S. is going to China and saying 'we want you to commit economic suicide just like Japan did. We want you to follow the same way: we want you to re-value your currency, we want you to squeeze your companies, we want you to go bankrupt so we can make our profit at your expense,' says Hudson.

'We want you the Chinese to allow our banks to gamble on your currency and make a huge gain on foreign exchange speculation so that our banks can get out of the problem that we have got them into. Will you please help us by going bankrupt for our benefit? Well, you can imagine what the Chinese are saying -- they are laughing,' Hudson adds.

The American plan to devalue the dollar would flood the global economy with money that would be used to buy out everything that values at local markets, he believes.

'Essentially, you'll have America's financial system and the banks acting as an army to raid foreign currencies.'

The US will traditionally break any of its promises to other countries because 'if there are no penalties -- there is no agreement', which has been the way of American diplomacy for the last 50 years, says the economist.

'Deals are for other people to follow, not the U.S. It puts itself over and above the agreements.'

China has been financing the American budget deficit with $US 2.5 trillion while the U.S. has been spending it on military, building bases around the world. It is taking aggressive action toward the creditor, interfering in its waters, believes Hudson.

He says China's reaction is, 'You want us to pay for your military budget? You threaten us to make us do what you want us to do? You must be crazy!'

President Barack Obama does not have any leverage to induce China to do the desired. The favor he will be demanding from G20 members literally means "please accept our paper dollars even though we have no way of paying for it and even though we can never pay off these debts, please accept them and let us buy out your real estate and companies with dollars that will never be repaid,' says Hudson.

At the same time the U.S. refuses to do what its creation, the IMF, requires from all other countries in case of budget deficit: raise interest rates and privatize industries.

'China is treating the U.S. dollar reserves it has like a hot potato," he says. "They want to do two things: first of all they want to reciprocate and buy the U.S. companies -- just as the U.S. wanted to buy China. The U.S. says 'we will not let you buy filling stations here or refineries'. You can't buy in America. We can buy in you, you can't buy in America.'

Naturally, America sees China as a potential enemy and that is why it is on top of the Pentagon's list of strategic enemies. So China is not apt to finance the American war machine anymore.

'The U.S. debt is other people's asset.'

'There is no way in the world that America can ever pay the foreign government debt that it owes,' the economist believes. The BRIC countries agreed at the summit in the Russian city of Ekaterinburg, in

2009, to gradually reduce dollar turnover to avoid collecting more of America's debt that will never be paid.

'The affective quantitative easing by the Fed is to turn the dollar into a pariah currency that everybody is trying to avoid because nobody wants them, you cannot use them to invest in the U.S. because of the nationalism here, other countries do not want dollars -- what is the point in accepting more dollars?' questions Hudson.

He believes that the time of the dollar as the reserve currency is over and the question now is how it will end -- in a polite slow gradual manner or otherwise."

[Warm Worm]

What's your net worth?

(Do you have a net? ;)

Virtual run on the bank (dec. 7th. 2010, France, maybe other countries)

----------------- Financial "war":

Quote from video:

"09. November 2010:

There is no possibility of agreement at the upcoming G20 summit because the U.S. is declaring financial war on other countries, believes American economist and wall street analyst Prof. Dr. Michael Hudson.

The U.S. has been pushing China to revalue its currency -- at a time when Washington has been pumping billions of dollars into its economy

-- a move viewed by other countries as an attempt to deliberately weaken the greenback.

The issue of exchange rates is expected to be one of the toughest discussion points at the G20 summit in South Korea later this week.

Michael Hudson, a renowned economist and Wall Street financial analyst and advisor, says the meeting in Seoul will not bring an end to global currency wars.

'The U.S. is going to China and saying 'we want you to commit economic suicide just like Japan did. We want you to follow the same way: we want you to re-value your currency, we want you to squeeze your companies, we want you to go bankrupt so we can make our profit at your expense,' says Hudson.

'We want you the Chinese to allow our banks to gamble on your currency and make a huge gain on foreign exchange speculation so that our banks can get out of the problem that we have got them into. Will you please help us by going bankrupt for our benefit? Well, you can imagine what the Chinese are saying -- they are laughing,' Hudson adds.

The American plan to devalue the dollar would flood the global economy with money that would be used to buy out everything that values at local markets, he believes.

'Essentially, you'll have America's financial system and the banks acting as an army to raid foreign currencies.'

The US will traditionally break any of its promises to other countries because 'if there are no penalties -- there is no agreement', which has been the way of American diplomacy for the last 50 years, says the economist.

'Deals are for other people to follow, not the U.S. It puts itself over and above the agreements.'

China has been financing the American budget deficit with $US 2.5 trillion while the U.S. has been spending it on military, building bases around the world. It is taking aggressive action toward the creditor, interfering in its waters, believes Hudson.

He says China's reaction is, 'You want us to pay for your military budget? You threaten us to make us do what you want us to do? You must be crazy!'

President Barack Obama does not have any leverage to induce China to do the desired. The favor he will be demanding from G20 members literally means "please accept our paper dollars even though we have no way of paying for it and even though we can never pay off these debts, please accept them and let us buy out your real estate and companies with dollars that will never be repaid,' says Hudson.

At the same time the U.S. refuses to do what its creation, the IMF, requires from all other countries in case of budget deficit: raise interest rates and privatize industries.

'China is treating the U.S. dollar reserves it has like a hot potato," he says. "They want to do two things: first of all they want to reciprocate and buy the U.S. companies -- just as the U.S. wanted to buy China. The U.S. says 'we will not let you buy filling stations here or refineries'. You can't buy in America. We can buy in you, you can't buy in America.'

Naturally, America sees China as a potential enemy and that is why it is on top of the Pentagon's list of strategic enemies. So China is not apt to finance the American war machine anymore.

'The U.S. debt is other people's asset.'

'There is no way in the world that America can ever pay the foreign government debt that it owes,' the economist believes. The BRIC countries agreed at the summit in the Russian city of Ekaterinburg, in

2009, to gradually reduce dollar turnover to avoid collecting more of America's debt that will never be paid.

'The affective quantitative easing by the Fed is to turn the dollar into a pariah currency that everybody is trying to avoid because nobody wants them, you cannot use them to invest in the U.S. because of the nationalism here, other countries do not want dollars -- what is the point in accepting more dollars?' questions Hudson.

He believes that the time of the dollar as the reserve currency is over and the question now is how it will end -- in a polite slow gradual manner or otherwise."

[creative1986]

That may be disclosed by next years end.

Let's open a bank, we'll call it, Worms Donning Exchange. We'll use locked autocad files as currency and they will be valued as per the bearers time value. There's only one requirement in becoming a member of WDE, you have to have something of tangible worth for collateral. That is, something that can be touched with the hands. That requirement would automatically eliminate a lot of people.

[Warm Worm]

Certainly not to the nation-state. Fuck that. :)

'Otherwise' I would think... in a reluctant twisted writhing worm-like style.

Not where empathy, rather than capital, competition or greed, rules your ethics. Everyone has things in common. It's called water, air, land and oil I suppose. All those can be touched with the hand.

Ken gripes about theft, like a few missing beers, but what about bombing his place for beer, because he invited us over, right? So we're his guests, and guests deserve beer. Well we think so. If it's there, we'll drink it-- to hell with Ken's needs. He can just get some more. (For us too.) ;)

Ever seen the You Tube video, 'Collateral Murder'?

But yes, agreed with regard to tangible trade-- all things being equal, fair and empathetic, etc..

[Warm Worm]

The nation-state may very well be coming to an end.

If we can't(/shouldn't) pay taxes (yes, theft) because the "hierarchy- of-work" (that the govmonks rely on for taxes) collapses, and where we're growing our own food, building our own homes, making our own clothes and taking care of our communities at the local (decentralized) level, and all from local resources, then there won't be "career salaries" to support, for example, a centralized police or military force...

And every season, from then on, will be 'greetings' (oh those TANGEABLE fall harvests! :) and all the profit markup with be in our hands, rather than the "nation-state-corporatobureaucracy".

At last glance, Ken, there was no Transition Initiative in Kelowna:

Maybe there's one closer to you, otherwise, you may decide you want to create one. :)

[Warm Worm]

So who's "stealing" "your" beer then? Don't drink beer either. I'd probably be in your Drambuie. Just a wee dram. Or your moonshine. When that getting going, BTW?

Yes, saw those riots via the Stimulator's channel.

We may be forced (by nature not the cops) to be entirely practical. ;)

Getting there slowly (Transition Ottawa, etc.), but in my case at T.O., it's more casual or removed (although, ostensibly-comparatively, I appear the most involved) because I expect to be elsewhere soon, and maybe also a place in mind that has no Transition initiative yet.

If you have no money to pay taxes to the govmonk, because you're growing your own food and you have new secure (protective) relationships with your local folk, then the gov't and their cops may have a bit of a hard time maintaining the gunpoints. Subverting the nation-state seems to be in part about forging new/local/tight/self- supportive relationships...

"Lastly, Gandhi developed the concept of nonviolent revolution, to be seen not as a programme for the seizure of power, but as a programme for transforming relationships. The concept sits neatly with the observation of the German anarchist, Gustav Landauer (1870-1919): 'The state is a condition, a certain relationship between beings, a mode of behaviour; we destroy it by contracting other relationships, by behaving differently.' "

-- Geoffrey Ostergaard, Resisting The Nation State

"[interview with] Bill Mollison: The first time I saw a review of one of my permaculture books was three years after I first started writing on it. The review started with, 'Permaculture Two is a seditious book.' And I said, 'At last someone understands what permaculture=92s about.' We have to rethink how we=92re going to live on this earth =97 stop talking about the fact that we=92ve got to have agriculture, we=92ve got to have exports, because all that is the death of us. Permaculture challenges what we=92re doing and thinking =97 and to that extent it=92s sedition.

People question me coming through the American frontier these days. They ask, 'What=92s your occupation?' I say, 'I=92m just a simple gardener.' And that is deeply seditious. If you=92re a simple person today, and want to live simply, that is awfully seditious. And to advise people to live simply is more seditious still.

You see, the worst thing about permaculture is that it=92s extremely successful, but it has no center, and no hierarchy.

Alan: So that=92s worst from whose perspective?

Bill: Anybody that wants to extinguish it. It=92s something with a million heads. It=92s a way of thinking which is already loose, and you can=92t put a way of thinking back in the box.

Alan: Is it an anarchist movement?

Bill: ...You won=92t get cooperation out of a hierarchical system. You get enforced directions from the top, and nothing I know of can run like that. I think the world would function extremely well with millions of little cooperative groups, all in relation to each other."

[creative1986]

Warm Worm> wrote:

Large parcels of people have surrendered their backbone to the notion of a collective, on a broadscale. But when you peel the layers away you will find that on a personal level they are repugnant to such a thing. "Whats mine is mine" is what they think, but they won't extend that courtesy to others. They think that whats mine is for them to say. I said it 10 years ago and I'll say it again now. This thing will be solved at the individual level, one person at a time, and the concept of *law* be damned. Nobody gets to harm anybody else under the color of law. If a person approaches with intent to harm it matters not whether he is a gov't employee or otherwise, it is then up to you to serve justice on the spot. Or have justice served upon you. When the men at the top realize that their employees at the bottom are being slaughtered wholesale they will start to look for an escape route. I've also said before that Obama (Bush, Clinton, etc.) aren't my problem as they themselves can't harm me. It is their minions at the bottom that can harm me and that is where my ire lies, at the bottom. Seriously, you have to question the intellect of the jackbooted thugs that go around harrassing people that have harmed no one because "they are just enforcing the law". Yes, they are childish bullies and should be dispatched instantly. For each bully terminated, 10 more will convert back into sane people and the ripple effect will take place.

Key words: laziness and fear - natural human deficiencies.

[creative1986]

Yes, I've done that too, paid too much, but not because I wanted to but because I had to.

It matters not to me how the thief spends the money he has stolen. My only concern is to prevent him from stealing from me. Your responsibility is to keep thieves from stealing from you. If we can come to a meeting of the minds on the meaning of theft we may then mount a charge to thwart the whole thing. Unbelieveably there are generations of people out there that do not know what the word theft means. Thus is the way in the evolved world of NewSpeak. Euphemisms now mean whatever the speaker wants them to mean.

[creative1986]

What a gov't giveth, it can taketh, retroactively. You live at it's pleasure. And most people are fine with that arrangement.

[Warm Worm]

Yes, all you have to do is got to You Tube and type, in quotes, "police brutality".

Ever heard of Chris Hedges, BTW? He's got some interesting speeches online, such as at You Tube for example.

[Warm Worm]

"Laws: We know what they are, and what they are worth! They are spider webs for the rich and mighty, steel chains for the poor and weak, fishing nets in the hands of the government." ~ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

[creative1986]

I've known Bob Higgs for a long time and about 6 years ago had an email based conversation about taxes, specifically, income taxes with him. Bob argued the IRS harrassed people in order to get money. I argued it wasn't about money, but rather control and I knew this for a fact based on direct experience. My argument was further reinforced by the fact that income tax amounted to less than *10% of gov't expenditure* and was not necessary. In the past year, has Bob finally agreed with me. Otherwise, he writes many tremendous articles on various things. Me, I stay focused on one simple aspect, and then everything else radiates outward from that premise. The natural rights of the invidual. The individual is the primary building block for all other associations and constructs and if you lose sight of that you wander off track. It starts, and ends, with you. It never was about everybody else.

**If the gov't was only allowed to spend that which it takes in through taxation then this country wouldn't be in the position it is right now. But the gov't has many means at its disposal to facilitate the massive overspending it has perpetuated for centuries. Even Jefferson himself spent the country into massive dept way back in 1803 with the Louisiana Purchase and its been going downhill ever since. A few years ago, when all the main sources were clamoring about the US debt being in the 13 to 20 trillion range my proven calculations were more in the $100 trill + range. Only recently am I seeing confirmation and beyond. Because the books are so convoluted no accurate accounting can ever be developed I wouldn't be surprised if the true amount is more than $500-1000tril, an amount that can never be repaid directly. Only the direct exchange of the entire continent could wipe the slate clean.

[Warm Worm]

Actually, it starts with your mom and dad and ends with you. ;)

But, yes, I seem to recall us previously agreeing that many things boil down to the individual.

I'd be curious to look into a breakdown of where/how the(ir) gov't gets its money.

I've lately been thinking about debt and one of my inquiries with regard to individual debt, goes like this: If a personal debt gets sold to a bank (where the original creditor gets paid off by the bank, and therefore the bank assumes the debt), and the debtor doesn't think the bank system is ethical, there seems to be an ethical prerogative for the debtor to default on the debt as a means of protest or weapon. What do you think? 'Caveat creditor'? Same thing with the government, such as, for example, with supposedly corrupt 3rd world governments that levy large debts (via IMF/World Bank/WTO?) on "their" populations.

Here's a nice crisp on the WTO:

From what I think I understand; a debt-based economy only makes sense (assuming it ever can) in an economy that's growing, but if energy gets restricted, like oil, such as where its price increases, you get "financial crisis", and maybe where debt "blows up". (and alt.arch posters start falling off the map :) (and countries start going into or getting close to default)

Obviously certain kinds of perpetual growth aren't possible, certainly not fossil-fuel-based (unless we can use some hydrocarbons from Saturn's moon, Titan), and that's what we essentially have; a growth- based economy based on finite energy resources.

I've been reading some pretty dreary stuff lately. This one added another notch to my dreariness level:

read the whole page, and found it worth to download its free ebook PDF, which is what I've just done, so I'll peruse that this evening.

Wake me when 2011's over.

[creative1986]

I grabbed that ebook and will peruse it when I get a chance.

I suspect 2011 will be an interesting year. Scroll down this page:

and watch for the word: sousveillance A big part of the overall problem is that there are a whole bunch of people on this planet that somehow believe they have the right to force other people to do their bidding. That is wrong, and needs to be stopped, and the perpetrators need to be severely punished. Now how can that be done? Again, look at it from an individual perspective. Each of us, a cell of unawareness, imperfect and incomplete. If a person comes straight up to you and slaps you all in your face do you blame any one of a number of strata he may belong to or do you blame him directly? If the former you are contributing to the problem but if the latter then why not treat all individuals that express force against your consent accordingly? Do you see where I am going? Sousveillance can be a tool in this effort, as a warning to others that intend to inflict force, directly or indirectly. When a person understands he will be held directly accountable for his actions he is more apt to monitor his actions so as to not be beaten or killed for example. Currently there is little in the way of accountability so naturally there will be even more erroneous behavior. The victims unwilling to stop this force reap exactly what they have sown. Pussification has run rampant on this planet and everyone clamors for victimhood so it is little wonder there is so much force flying around.

[creative1986]

About 18 months ago I vanquished the last of my debt, debt that I have carried for more then 35 years. I am completely debt free, now, and have adjusted to it. I still have a few monthly bills but I'm working to get rid of them too. I'd like to live free of the necessity of possessing money or any other gov't based financial instruments but I'm not certain that is possible here in the US. But I'm gonna try.

BTW, its a foreign *feeling* to know I owe no one anything, much like being a child again, sort of. Debt, financial enslavement, is inherently an adult predicament. Don't mistake debt for credit as most people, and much of society, has done. They are not the same thing. Unfortunately, lack of debt in this society equates to being a credit risk, but at this point I don't really care. Being debt free carry's with it a sense of empowerment which is derived from not being enslaved.

[Warm Worm]

We're live

[Warm Worm]

Fair enough, and good for you if that's what you want, but my point, which I assume you got anyway, but just in case, was essentially that you are not in debt to a corrupt, indebted system (that steals from you and threatens your health, well-being and livelihood, etc.), despite their claims of credit against you. In effect you are debt-free, despite your so-called "debt" to them.

Again, from what I'm seeing, you and everyone else. LOL (Including me.) (There are barter clubs and share sites online. I got wind of one on the Transition Ottawa site I'm a member of just this week. You may also find some ecovillages nearby too, such as if you ever need support.) Apparently, according to Mike Ruppert's show, they are working on each state going bankrupt by law or something like that (You should hear what he said in comparison with it being worse than the great depression!):

It's here:

Some more vids if interested:

?v=ItgdqxH_xTg Those sousveillance things may prove worthless in a collapsing economy, but who knows... I'm shaking my head here as I type this. Amazing what's going down globally. I think the opportunity to practice some of my natural building theory may come sooner than I realize holicrap. :D

Reborn for the new era!

I recall an expression, something about ignoring the system. While this isn't it, it's what I could find on short notice:

"- Reliance on doomed institutions is harmful. Government is already useless.

- Commercial sector will become useless quickly. Since they will be useless to you, you can start being useless to them ahead of time." ~ Dmitry Orlov

[Warm Worm]

Agreed in a way, although there's a lot of resistance out there too, and we may see far more as the dynamics unfold. A dangerous time to be a cop may very well be upon us. Have you seen any video of the (largely student I think) riots? The students in Italy had shields and maybe even baton-type things! And that's just the beginning and just with students. Pop pussification into another context and watch her turn tiger.

Release the prisoners! ;)

[Warm Worm]

Presumably by turning to local community and ignoring the centralized nation-state. Some ways within those to do that as well as perhaps some other ways, possibly one of which I'm working on.

"Grand centralization" (i.e. nation-state) apparently doesn't work. Did I give you these two quotes already?

"Arabic scholar Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406) regarded 'group solidarity' as the primary requisite for civilization. 'Civilization needs the tribal values to survive, but these very same values are destroyed by civilization. Specifically, urban civilization destroys tribal values with the luxuries that weaken kinship and community ties and with the artificial wants for new types of cuisine, new fashions in clothing, larger homes, and other novelties of urban life.' " ~ Weatherford, 1994

"Given the current shape of the human population graph, those indicators also spell out a much larger and, from our point of view, more ominous message: the human plague cycle is right on track for a demographically normal climax and collapse. Not only have our genes managed to conceal from us that we are entirely typical mammals and therefore vulnerable to all of evolution's customary checks and balances, but also they have contrived to lock us so securely into the plague cycle that they seem almost to have been crafted for that purpose. Gaia is running like a Swiss watch." ~ Morrison, 1999

Ace quotes. :)

I missed this the first time around, but who or what's the sousveillance for? You? Government? Community? Are you going to post it to You Tube or something? Run it by the folks down the road? Send it to the cops? ;)

At any rate, I've already posted something along these lines from Higgs with regard to gov't-related viciousness.

[creative1986]

My little 5 acre utopia is getting more utopian all the time. Eventually I expect to achieve nirvana!

Nah, I already did overseas, got the t-shirt. Wanna see it? I don't think it fits me anymore. Its yellow.

I've been poor, didn't like it. So I changed it. I've been kinda wealthy, didn't like the baggage. So I traded in my legal tenders for tangibles I can live with for a lifetime. It ain't what you have, it's what you got.