Braille ATMs

[Kris Krieger]

"3D Peruna" wrote in news:Hq9af.54220$ [e-mail]:

One factor.

Right.

And a coment made in a cynical moment also is not statistical analysis. I'll say it once more, mea culpa for not addin in the appropriate disclaimers. But I haven't seen anything that proves it to be completely

100% bogus. Again, it'd be *nice* to see some stats that prove the comment is just a blivet. Until then, it's my casual observation that it's more often true than not. Which doesn't in itself deny that your observation might be different.

I'm not sure it's a good analogy, because there is some science behind the warnings. And I have no patience whatsoever for the opposing notion of "we didn't cause it all, so we can pollute and multiply and screw the environment up however much we want".

Very few things are either-or situations; most are interactions between two or more phemomena. That being said, if something *can* be mitigated, it seems silly to simply let things continue getting worse.

Granted on all of the above. But it still seems to me that people who are more thoughtful are generally not very inclined to have more children than they can effectively rear and support.

[Kris Krieger]

"Don" wrote in news:bs9af.4705$ [e-mail]:

And VW Beetles ;) Easy to maintain. Ours got good gas mileage, too, even without having enough computer chips to run a moon landing

[zenboom]

ah, sadly, no. the makers esp like to move the reverse around... maybe you have to push the stick down, or pull a lever up... [ i'm thinking just German makes, for instance ] ... and then theres reversing the turn and wiper positions! :7

[3D Peruna]

"Kris Krieger" wrote in message news:S8aaf.4979$ [e-mail]...

Didn't say that...only that the current state of climate science is very sad... The thing I've learned in the past couple of months regarding climate is that we know so little that we don't even know if any of the things we might do would actually mitigate any potential "problems" the climate might be having.

I'm against pollution, dirty water, etc... I have no problem saying that indivudals (and individuals running companies) should limit the negative impact on the environment. And, to that end, less government, rather than more, will eventually be more effective.

(PS - spend some time at climate audit...seriously. You'll be amazed..., even if the math ends up being above your head)

[Kris Krieger]

"Don" wrote in news:O_9af.3423$ [e-mail]:

Yup.

Please, that whole blivet is simply disgusting.

Even a bacterium (e.g., cells of E. coli) can stick a tube into another bacterium and inject genetic material. Well whoopie, these people can function at the level of an intestinal organism. Well doesn't that make me want to fall all over myself with awe and respect for them.

I have more respect for a tapeworm.

Precisely. And takes responsibility (ethically, financially, and in all other ways) for the outcome of those actions/choices.

Everyone makes mistakes, experiences errors in judgement, but it's one thing to take responsibility for them and at least try to correct them, or live with them if need be - it's a whole different ball of crap to just whine that "nobody's perfect" and we're all supposed to love and respect and cherish a meatblob who exhibits all the humanity of a botfly larva.

At least one of the most serious...

Well, I know what it's like to be little more than an unwelcome additional burden, so I have not even the smallest shred of even tolerance (never mind respect!) for people who act as tho' children are just *things*, or in the case of too damn many people, less impotant than their *things*, less important than their own warped little self-obsessed manipulative egos, less important than getting drunk or high. If someone doesn't want to rear the child properly and lovingly, then put him or her up for adoption so someone who is capable of love, care, and teaching can take care of the child.

Sorry but as much as I have tried to be tolerant and understanding of peole's plights, one thing I find unforgivable is having children and then giving them nothing but neglect and abuse and resentment and so on. If someone wants to foul up their own life, well, that's their business and I really don't care - but there is no excuse for putting a child through a meat grinder.

History, psychology, even myths and legends. This is an ancient truth, not some recent discovery. But a truth that some poeple simply are not capable of comprehending.

[Kris Krieger]

"zenboom" wrote in news:dkbdnf$f9b$ [e-mail]:

Oh... Well ya learn something every day ;)

[zenboom]

surely it's clear that 'IQ' is a limited evaluation ? Nor does it correspond to Education. And that good character is more effective than both??

one should say "there, but for Grace..." since each one gets what they didn't ask for. it's the blessed few that realize it's up to themselves to move on up...the great thing thing is that anyone can do this for themselves whenever they take stock and accept the possibility. so beware defining persons, yourself especially - this thing was made to change!

adios

[Edgar]

Yeah, 10 bucks could take me on a 4 hour trip to school, up the 101. Those were the days. I did everything on my Bug except rebuild the engine itself, and throw on the shitty primer paint job. What I really want next is an old motorcycle I can work on myself, possibly restore, like an old BMW R90s. I think if I won the lotto the first thing I would want is a Vincent Black Shadow.

[Kris Krieger]

Edgar wrote in news:43694648$0$41149$ [e-mail]:

[ ... ]

That'd be great, I envy people who can ride them (I don't a good enough sense of balance, can't control one :p ).

Some of the little experimental cars (incl. solar models ) look very interesting but sadly, they're just not suitable to today's roads. Admittedly, tho' if I knew I would be living permanently in a very sunny area, a Solar one would be interesting as a possible emergency transport. ((Yeah, I've also been looking at plans for Solar Ovens...seen too many post-apocalyptic-genre SF flicks I guess ))

[Edgar]

Lots of people have been "hacking" their Toyota Prius vehicles to give them higher gas mileages. One is to replace the standard batteries with higher capacity (and higher priced) batteries, not sure if they use NiMH or Lion or whatever, but it is something like that. Then they make the car able to be plugged in. The car then runs off the extra juice for much longer, until it gets down to about standard Prius levels, then it goes back to hybrid mode. This has raised the gas mileage significantly. I've also seen one guy add solar panels to the roof, which was very expensive. I think they might have gotten up to something like 100MPG or more.

The thing about these cars though, is not the fact that they use less energy (its hard to say with the inherent energy used in making the batteries, the heavy metals used in those batteries, and the plug in costs), but rather get us away from being dependent on oil. But I haven't seen anything about truly lowering energy usage. I think that will come with a move to more local economies.

[Kris Krieger]

Edgar wrote in news:436a6293$0$41144$ [e-mail]:

Wild stuff - I have to admit, I never would have thought of any of that. Certainly if one lives in areas that are frequently knocked out by storms, some sort of alternative transportaion would be a real boon IMO. I've read that some current solar collectors work decently even in cloudy weather. Some of those seem to come on a flexible surface of some sort. IMO, if they're a reality, it'd be a benefit to have something like that that could be plugged into the car or *any* portable power source or power supplement. Heck, what about using something like that as part of the structure of an ultralight airplane of some sort?

And, of course, useful for homes as well.

That's the question that never seems to get answered - how much raw energy goes into the different forms. But also, how much is used over the lifetime of the thing (I tend to own things for a really long time...except dwellings...) IOW, if the car lasts for 15 years, then, including energy used in construction and fuel refinement and so on, would a petroleum-based combustion-engine vehicle use more or less energy than an alternative energy vehicle.

I think alt. energy has a huge potential in terms of being green but also in terms of economics, the post-oil economy, but of course I am probably just dreaming ;)

[3D Peruna]

I think Edgar is right... instead of larger "infrastructure", we'll move to "local" infrastructure. A couple of examples:

1) Waste water treatment. Eventually, I think that 80-90% of all waste water will be treated on site and recycled. This will impact large municiple waste water treatment plants. 2) Energy. Residential fuel cells, small scale fusion reactors and other advancements will mean most energy is produced locally, rather than regionally. This, too, will impact energy companies in ways we can't imagine. We're still a decade (minimum) off, without a major breakthrough.

[3D Peruna]

I'd be interested in seeing what you find out. Also, check out:

. Click and download the PDF. Very interesting. The stuff that's most interesting is the physical requirements for the use of renewable energy (some many square miles of land for wind, so many square miles for biomass, etc). I'm not sure how accurate these guy's numbers are, but even if they're off by a factor of 10, most renewables appear to be useless on a mass scale.

[3D Peruna]

Thanks for the picts...very interesting. The glow is pretty cool...too bad they can't get closer ;)

P

[3D Peruna]

The challenge with "off-grid" is usually based mostly on climate. The most successful examples seem to be in the southwest--moderate temperatures and plentiful sun. Every time I try and find something to move off grid, the financial aspects keep it from happening...particularly since I'm in the upper mid-west where winter hits hard and cold. I'm not prepared to spend my life logging (wood) for a fuel source. And, I know, from doing the math, that other options don't cut it when we have 30+ days of sub-zero weather with 50% cloud cover. Fuel cells would be the primary way of moving off grid. I'd be interested in seeing how to build your own...

[Kris Krieger]

"Don" wrote in news:rIzbf.5853$ [e-mail]:

All in this sub-topic sounds like good stuff to me.

Whatever the masses do, is IMO not the point when it coems down to trying to live one's own life. I personally am not convinced that non-oil-based energy is useless on a large scale - some states are already using it), but regardless, nothing wrong with being as off-grid as possible, IMO.

[3D Peruna]

"Kris Krieger" wrote in message news:jDPbf.823$c [e-mail]...

What do you mean "non-oil-based energy"? And, which states are already using it?

[Kris Krieger]

"3D Peruna" wrote in news:PfQbf.60473$ [e-mail]:

CA has at least one large wind-farm, I thought NM did as well. I thought thre were a few others.

I mean electricity not generated by burning petroleum.

I know that metals require alot of heat for shaping, alloying, etc., and nope, I don't know the figures for how much oil or coal the furnaces burn. But I'm not sure that's the point because making a wind turbine is a one time event, whereas running a home (esp. one that is energy-intensive) goes on and on.

[3D Peruna]

"Kris Krieger" wrote in message news:T9Rbf.1054$ [e-mail]...

Yes...there are wind farms all over the place. The problem is that they generate a fraction of a percent of the electricity the country uses. In order for them to make a dent in our total usage, the area required is something on the order of all of the New England states combined. And even then you need to take into account the fact that the wind doesn't always blow hard enough. Yes, it's being used, but it's the proverbial drop in the bucket and it always will be a drop in the bucket, no more .

OK....what other options are there? How many are cost effective? How about effective at all on a mass scale at the quality level we've come to expect? I know of only one economically feasible one at this time.

Read the report I sited...look at the math done regarding the physical requirements (much less the infrastructure requirements). You'll learn that wind energy, on a large scale, is a boondoggle, too.

Hey...I'd love to have cheap, renewable, clean electricity. The fact is, we're not even close to being there yet. We've not invented the techology to make it happen.

[3D Peruna]

Don,

I fully understand the issues as you presented them...but that's not the problem. Sunlight and average temperature (over months) make a huge difference. There are available tables for average cloud cover over different cities and parts of the country. For example, St. Louis has about

50% cloud cover (on average, IIRC). This means that you need to factor that into your PV panel requirements from day one. Combine that with the fact that the summer season there has 90% humidity and little wind for 5 months of the year, you see that using PV to provide power for cooling isn't feasible. What's the alternative? Wind? The summer season in St. Louis is low wind (higher winds in the winter). OK...so we go with a ground source heat pump, powered by PV panels. Sure...that's the ticket, right? Well...our heat pump draws 50 amps to get started. So, you'd need to get a pretty good battery system to make sure it works. Next, let's look at super insulating our houses...can it be done...yes, but there go most of the windows and natural light*.

I'm not against alternative systems, I just haven't found that the trade-offs are worth it. Until the costs and other significant issues get resolved it's only for those few who have significantly different priorities (ie, they're trying to prove something to themselves, or sometimes others, or what to disappear, or something like that--note there's no value judgement in having different priorities).

I'm pulling for you, but it's a hard road.

I'll try and find it--but there was a guy who went completely off grid. He researched it much before he went off grid and ended up picking a spot in AZ because of cheap land, plentiful sunshine, relatively moderate year-round temperatures. He had PV and solar water heaters, plus a windmill or two. He also went with low voltage light fixtures and other things to reduce his consumption. In the end, he still had to run the generator occasionally to keep things humming. And this is someone who knew well in advance what needed to happen to go completely off grid.

• Odd thing... I remember being in graduate school and our resident "environmental" professor was a ball of contradictions (aren't they always). He would argue one day that you could build a super-efficient house in St. Louis that required minimal heating and cooling. We'd argue that nobody would want to live in it because of the little natural light and ventilation available. The next day, he'd talk about using maximum natural light and ventilation. When we pointed out what he said the day before, he'd get mad and start swearing at us... there was no pleasing the guy.

P