Wow the Kreg Pocket Hole Jig looks even better after seeing this video

http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBasedJoinery/PocketHoleJig/index.html
Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There was an obvious twist on the corner joint.
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"Leon" wrote in message

There were a number of problems... the warped center stile for one. Also it appears that either one or both of the rails on the top and bottom appeared to be warped too. I'll give Ernie the benefit of the doubt on the length of the outside stiles... his process may include flushing the ends and squaring the door after it's assembled.
I suspect the warped parts contributed to the alignment problem...
That said, the lack of panels suggests this was strictly a demo for pocket screws!
John
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"Leon" wrote:

"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.
Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of years.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote:

--------------------------------------------------- Prices are reasonable.
Couldn't find specs but most likely 304, not 316L.
By definition, stainless translates into "stain less", not "stainless".
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote:
<http://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kreg-jigreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/

Lew Hodgett wrote:

"Leon" wrote:

Couple of points.
Jamestown Distributors is just about the most inclusive marine chandlery in the USA.
They don't stock Kreg anything.
If you truly need corrosion resistant, then go bronze.
Brass is also worthless in a marine enviroment since the tin will leach out leaving a pitted copper structure.
For many marine applications as well as kitchen pots, pans and cutlery, stainless (304 and 316) are about the only choices.
Lew
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On 1/14/2015 7:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

I nave sent them an e-mail inquiring about their stainless steel screws.
In the mean time here is what they have to say.
Kreg Stainless Screws are specially designed for maritime applications, excessive exposure to water, and other exceedingly corrosive environments, such as ACQ-treated lumber. If you’re looking for the best in rust-prevention, this is your solution. All Stainless Screws are #10.
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"Leon" wrote:

"And we've got some clean low mileage northern cars in our other lot", said the used car dealer in Tampa.<G>
Lew
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On 1/14/2015 8:04 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

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On 1/14/2015 3:30 PM, Leon wrote: > http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBasedJoinery/PocketHoleJig/index.html > > Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling > at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There > was an obvious twist on the corner joint.
I have the Kreg Jr. jig; the one that is basically the drill guide alone. You need to clamp it to the work with a separate clamp. I have used the Kreg face clamp and the Kreg AutoMax clamps for both the drilling and for holding the pieces while driving the screws. I also jury-rigged a jig on my bench vise when I had many face frame pieces to drill:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8485788335/in/photostream/lightbox/
(The small 1x2 block shows where the actual 1x2 work pieces would go)
I have found that in both operations - drilling and driving the screws - tight clamping is essential. When drilling, the rotation of the bit will cause the work piece to move laterally if it is not firmly held in place. This problem is made more likely if you don't have the drill up to speed before it touches the wood.
You have to be even more careful when driving the screws. The screw's motion creates a *strong* tendency to twist or shift the pieces out of alignment. I got a couple of the Rockler "Pock-It" clamps at a deep discount, which looked like they would hold the pieces together and keep them flush at the same time.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8008853790/in/set-72157628183501013/lightbox/
I have not found them to be adequate. Holding the piece "off center" as these clamps do does not give adequate protection against twisting. I do still use them, but add a face clamp as well:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/8669716609/in/photostream/lightbox/
And I make the face clamps *tight*. I can't overemphasize this. The pieces will shift given the smallest freedom to do so.
Sometimes I take the "suspenders and a belt ...and more suspenders" approach:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguarino/11506463003/in/set-72157637538534446/lightbox/
I've now used pocket screws on a number of projects, several times for face frames as in the video. I can say that I'm not surprised that the clamping shown in the video was (evidently) inadequate.
I usually preface any "advice" like this by mentioning my relative lack of experience; I don't want to pretend to have expertise. But I don't think I'm using the system incorrectly; it seems to be simply the nature of the beast.
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"Leon" wrote:

Which is basically the same as 304 except better suited to drawing which makes sense for fasteners, but it's still not very good for marine applications.
Lew
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On 1/15/2015 12:25 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Yep, which makes Kreg liable for failures if they are saying it is marine grade.
Nice law suit waiting. A-holes.
I have a grudge against Kreg for what they did to the extruded aluminum they bought. At the shows it was like $25 for the fence 90 degree extrusion. They bought the rights and it was then the next year like $90 and had to be bought with their band saw fence if I remember the numbers correctly.
--
Jeff

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