And yet, when I presented you with exactly that situation, you chose to nullify my experience, through some feat of mental gymnastics that I am not privy to.
sigh...
This is damned interesting to me. I have a MA in philosophy and I have never been able to be sure that I have a soul, let alone delving into the possibility that wood that is cut thick has a soul, while wood that is cut thin has none.
And your definition of "High End" is what?
This doesn't sound snotty to you?
No shit?
Dude:
Stay in Chicago.
You don't know dick and the Pizza in Philly is more than you can handle.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
I did. So did a lot of other people. But when you're all-knowing like you, you can just discount all that.
What about your experience did I nullify? I asked how many make fine quality table tops from plywood. So far as I can tell, you're the only one who said they have. Fine. That's one vote for "plywood is an excellent choice for high quality tables".
Ah. More arrogance. Obviously, if someone took a class, they don't know anything.
Well, as I said, that was the opinion of a very well-respected and very long-time woodworker who runs the apprenticeship program at Chicago Bauhaus, not mine. But in my mind, there's a little bit of difference between a solid piece of wood and a bunch of thin pieces of wood pressed together with formaldehyde glue in a factory. And if you've read any of the other posts, you'll find I'm not alone in this thinking.
Well, there's a certain je ne sais quoi when trying to fully define it, but it doesn't include sheet goods. Or are you the only person in the universe capable of making that determination?
No more than you sound like an ass.
Seriously. Kitchen cabinets come to mind.
Hey, when you run out of clever things to say, just call someone a dick. It really bolsters your argument. I'm not sure how pizza figures into this. Why don't you just stick to cheesesteak and leave the real pizza to the pros? Make sure to be safe in the shop too. Climbing down off that high horse can be dangerous.
Whoa, there, Dick. Better be prepared to be called either stupid or untalented by Mr. Watson for a remark like that. He might even bust out his book of quotes on you.
I'm sorry that this has devolved into a pi$$ing contest.
Much of the output of the alumni (and faculty, for that matter) of the College of the Redwoods over the past decade or so has used veneer, generally shop cut, over whatever substrates made the most sense for the project. Often, that was a process very similar to that described by Mr. Watson.
Note also the Scandinavian master designers of the mid-twentieth century. And Jere Osgood, who has a piece or three in the world's better museums
'Quality' is well executed material and design, whatever material that may turn out to be.
Patriarch, who knows a few great wooddorkers, and admires them, more than he can emulate their craft...
Jeeze, Watson, you sure get your panties in a bunch when someone dares to disagree with you! The nerve of some people, to not recognize your obvious superiority in all things!
Call you wrong, or say your work is anything but high-class, and the erudite one resorts to grade school name calling! LOL I'm sure you had a logic/argumentation class in your legendary academic career, (which you seldom fail to mention), right? Then you of course know what we think when you have nothing left but ad hominems...
Hi Dan, In my business our furniture is constructed out of the real deal. About the only place we'll use plywood is in the backs of large dressers or the base of a china cabinet where it won't be seen...basically only to lighten the load. There is no shortage of lumber for me, though. I think a lot of "high end" furniture companies use plywood simply because they can. Most of their customers can't tell the difference anyway. I have people come into our store all the time and expect to custom order a piece at wal-mart prices and gawk at the price tags. Of course there those who appreciate quality and can't believe how inexpensive the stuff is....those are the guys in to buy lumber to build their own. Jana
While not exactly made from plywood (these are first bended, then glued up) Alvar Aalto designed several chairs that were quite high end in 1920's and 1930's and even designed and made for invidual orders. Here is a link to a web page with images:
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think that especially the chair in top right corner is pretty qood example what can be made from plywood and still be considerrerd of being of very good quality. These chairs are still pretty expensive today, despite of being mass produced.
I don't think that these are high end anymore cos of mass production but I like them very much. Artek web pages have links where his furniture is used, see
Seismo Malm wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@nemesis.co.jyu.fi:
An interesting contention: That high-end furniture cannot be simultaneously mass produced. The contention is that exclusivity is inherent in the 'quality' of the product, and replication, with no other changes, somehow reduces the appropriateness of the design.
I contend that it only changes the price, and thereby, the accessibility.
My best respects to the Finns, who, having relatively scarce physical resources, and being few in number, have determined to, and largely succeeded at, exporting intelligent, thoughtful design in selected products, and done well thereby.
Olebiker wrote: :>I guess I didn't voice the opinion, but I have the feeling that : furniture : made from plywood, no matter how beautiful it may be, still isn't the : "real : thing" if you are looking for really high end furniture.
: You know, I feel the same way about veneer. I know that a lot of fine : furniture builders have used veneers, but I still think it looks cheap.
Have a look at Ruhlmann's furniture from the 20s-30s. Cheap it ain't (on any construal of the word).
Hi Dan, It depends a little on how you look at it. For locals (IA or MN) who cusom order furniture, it would be plain sawn red oak, of course. For either coast, it's qs white oak, hickory, or cherry, and maple is starting to pick up again quite a bit. In the showroom we have furniture built out of about every species we cut. The main reason for that is that it gives people an idea of what different flavors are available for flooring, etc...I'd have to say that about 8 out of 10 people who come in looking for red oak flooring end up choosing something different. I'm not a huge fan of red oak, though, so I have a tendancy to talk people into other species and on more than one occasion..a mix of 'em all. Jana
While I am a big fan of Ruhlmann's designs (you do realize that he built nothing himself) his use of veneer is as tacky as Pamela Anderson's store-bought bosom.
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