I know, a basic question. I'm not much of a woodworker, but was curious about when plywood started to be accepted in high end furniture making (assuming it is). Now I guess guys like Duncan Pfyfe and Lannuier used veneers (I think) but I don't think they used plywood. Did they just select the best boards they could find? As a layman I always thought plywood was cheap crap made to look like the real thing, but now I see it appears that plywood is preferred to solid board, or is that just due to cost and stability of the wood?
If money and supply were no option, as it shouldn't be on high end stuff, would you still prefer a plywood veneer?
Plywood is more practical in that it does not have the problems associated with wood movement that solid wood does.
If today's plywood was available a couple of centuries ago, I have to wonder if the old masters would have used it. I also have to wonder about the quality of wood from the old growth trees from many years ago compared to what is available today. Of course, there was a lot of cheaper furniture made that did not survive the centuries either because of inferior material or inferior workmanship.
I guess I didn't voice the opinion, but I have the feeling that furniture made from plywood, no matter how beautiful it may be, still isn't the "real thing" if you are looking for really high end furniture. Again, just a layman's view.
Read up on Eames chairs. You will find that they are generally considered by people who are into that sort of thing and whose style they suit to be highly desirable pieces of furniture. Mine's over 40 years old and still looks new. Now, look at the design and tell me how you would implement that in anything _but_ plywood and have the same result.
From an engineering viewpoint, plywood is a material with certain properties. When designing a piece of furniture sometimes those properties suit it better than anything else for a particular component. In those cases it should be used.
Now, with regard to your question about "high end stuff", veneer is often used on expensive furniture because it is very difficult to achieve some effects any other way--try to get a diamond match on a tabletop for example without having weak corners. As a substrate for veneer plywood is excellent--better than solid wood because it does not move nearly as much in service and so does not stress the veneer or the bond.
Now, with regard to Phyfe and Lannuier, Phyfe died in 1854 and Lannuier in
1819, but commercial plywood as we know it first went into production in
1905, so they certainly did not use the kind of plywood we buy from lumberyards. Whether they made their own I have no idea.
IMHO, I don't think ply has a place in "high end furniture". But then, my definition of high end furniture might differ from someone else's. For those who tend to disagree, I would ask them how many have made what they consider to be a fine quality table top from plywood, because that would be the perfect example of an application where something large, flat, and dimensionally stable is desirable. If you want to take it to an extreme, I took a couple of woodworking classes here in Chicago and the head of the operation told me that, unlike solid wood, plywood doesn't have a "soul". Now, I'm not ready to go quite that far, but I don't use it in anything I consider to be high end.
The trouble with ply as a tabletop is twofold. First you have to edge it with something and that something is going to be visible and affect the design. Second, unless it's made from all hardwood plies it's going to ding easily even through the veneer. A panel in a door where the edges are concealed by the rail and stile would IMO be a more appropriate use.
I've helped a number of folks move very expensive, high-end antiques, and many of them had nasty looking unsanded barn clapboards on the back, with beautiful facades achieved with veneer. My guess would be that many of those old masters would have loved to have plywood to nail onto the back and to use as a substrate if they would have had that option.
I would, but that may be due to my skill level and lack of complete understanding of how solid wood is going to behave when the humidity changes.
The answer is definitely yes in some cases. For the back panel of a bookcase for example, why use anything else? Plywood wins in every category in an application like that. It's stable, and that is a very important thing for a large panel. It stands a better chance of keeping its shape over the long haul. You don't have to engineer in tricks to allow for expansion and contraction. It provides a surface of uniform color and grain. Have you ever seen walnut plywood? It is absolutely gorgeous. Color and grain matching of large areas with solid wood is an exercise in futility for the most part. Show me one case where money and supply are not factors. Where are you going to find enough ebony to make a banquet table? No matter how high-end the product, cost is always a factor. If it wasn't, then it would be art, not craftsmanship, and only one of anything would be made. DaVinci only produced one Mona Lisa, but Stradivari made over 1,100 musical instruments. Are you beginning to see the difference? If high end was the same thing as money being no object, then every piece of high end woodwork should be covered with carvings, inlays and marquetry. But who is going to pay for that? Nobody I know, not even most millionaires. Like anything else, high end is a relative thing.
Some woods are unique, like if it has curly figure, and a veneer over plywood not only means it will cover more area, but you can bookmatch pieces for an even better effect. If the wood isn't very strong or stable, and some figured wood is not, then you get the strength and stability of plywood to go with the look of the wood. Plywood is high end compared to particle board and MDF, and really cheap furniture seldom contains plywood. But it isn't even particle board or MDF that is the biggest problem with most cheap furniture, it is the design and how it is used. You can buy a home entertainment center at Wal-Mart for $100 that will sag if you use it as advertised, but I could make one out of MDF that would keep its shape, because I would use thicker material and support it where it was needed.
Does "high end" mean "high dollar"? If so, a perusal of
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should put some all plywood pieces in the running.
A master uses whatever material is appropriate. Being that there are damn few masters hereabouts, I suspect most responses against plywood in fine furniture are based on a preconceived prejudice.
Besides, tell that to DJM as he applies quilted veneer to a substrate of plwood for a piece of what is inarguably "high end" furniture.
Sounds like the music business... those that can, do; those that can't, teach others to do what they can't make a living at themselves.
There are quite a few designs which can really only be achieved in plywood (or other stable sheet good), and modern furniture designs have used the properties of plywood to make new designs. Now 'round this group, people lean towards traditional designs, all of which were designed to account for wood movement. Many of our 'pretty' designs, such as frame-and-panel, are compromises to account for wood movement. But if you open your horizons some, you will see lots of things where plywood is not a substitute for solid wood but instead a material all its own.
As a substrate, plywood is OK. Although MDF would do as well. But even hardwood plywood nowadays has such thin surface layers as to be easily damaged in use, if not sanded/scraped through while finishing.
I do agree that our ancestors had access to much better quality wood than we do today - and at little cost. Unfortunately, they used it all :-).
Ply is used for many things: drawer bottoms, carcass backs, etc. Cabinet-grade ply is not cheap. Most of my projects do not use plywood, but I don't rule it out either. Ply is more stable than soild wood.
As I suspected, there's a difference in my mind between "high end" and "expensive". There are certainly projects where plywood makes things infinitely easier.
So it sounds like modern quality furniture does incorporate plywood here and there as needed. Maybe traditional furniture with plywood backing and frame and panel elsewhere is a good blend of the two materials.
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