Waterborne Lacquer vs waterborne urethane and other questions

I've been getting conflicting info regarding waterborne lacquer's ability to "burn in". I presume that means no witness lines if you sand too deeply, because each coat "melts" into the previous coat. Is that true? If so, is it easy to repair water based lacquer years later, like nitro? Does it look different.
Does waterborne urethane look different than waterborne lac? Does urethane never have the capability to "burn in"? Or is all this hype by the mfgrs to address shortcomings of water based products?
And if they are so great, why should I still consider using solvent based stuff? Looks? Durability? Depth? Hardness? Do they polish out better?
Is it more important to pick the right BRAND, as opposed to the particular TYPE of finish?
I can SPRAY now...that's why all the questions! :)
Does waterborne lacquer take significantly longer to dry than nitro?
dave
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Hi Dave, A comment on the look of water based vs organic/oil based urethane. When you are spraying over certain colours of stain the water based product will impart a bluish hint to the finish. I noticed this more with reddish stains. Some users and manufactures add a small amount of an amber tint to counter this effect. And over time the water based product will not yellow as will the organic based. I use the water based whenever I can as you can apply 4 coats in a day vs 1 or 2 for oil based. And I can use it anywhere as it is not flammable. It is also cheaper and more environmentally friendly when you clean the gun. I have no experience with WB lacquers as of yet. Cheers, JG
Bay Area Dave wrote:

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Hey Dave,
How's it going? I'm curious what HVLP system you ended up with. I'm probably not going to be able to afford to get one of these for awhile, but I'm still curious. Have you had a chance to try it out yet? What do you think?
Thanks!
Mike

better?
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Bay Area Dave with a GUN? Now that's scary ! Ha Ha ! What's up Dave? Sounds like you have been real busy with all your new woodworking toys.

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Yeah, you'd think some of the guys around here would show a little more respect (fear)! :)
How you doing, yourself?? I'm not having ANY fun with my new toys; I don't have them yet! I hope to get the BS tomorrow and the sprayer by Thursday.
dave
FOW wrote:

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I don't know what gave you the idea I had "faith" in them? :) But I DO have to do business with them, on occasion...
dave
Guy Montag wrote:

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you've got your threads mixed up, fella!! :)
dave
Guy Montag wrote:

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Bravo Guy, too funny. Threads mixed up? I don't think so...
Greg

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You will love the HVLP unit. At least i love my Graco 4900 Procomp unit. Just remember to thin your material right and hold the gun 5-8 inches away from what your spraying. They are a little S L O W but you'll like how little material you'll need to use. I'll give ya a call soon, been fixin up the house so been busy.

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cool. I look forward to the call! I've been working on a mobile base for my Powermatic BS I just got. Sure glad I got rid of the Delta BS. this one is WAY cooler. (OOPS! don't want to piss off the Delta BS owners! )
dave
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Hi, Mike!
I got the Accuspray. I almost got an Apollo until the guy let me try it out. The gun doesn't spray quite as uniformly as the Accuspray gun, plus it was a bleeder type. I'll probably get it around Thursday. I can't "afford" it either, but then again I "need" it, if you know what I mean. :) I'll let you know how I like it.
Tomorrow I expect to get the Powermatic BS I bought yesterday. Hopefully I'll have it in my eager little hands before lunch! It has a nozzle that blows air on the work piece to keep the cut line clear (well, that's what it's supposed to do). they let me fire one up at the WW show, but we didn't run any wood through it. I scared the hell out of SWMBO when I put my finger near the nozzle to see how air it produced, because the nozzle was right next to the running blade. It also has a work light and runs quietly and smoothly like the proverbial sewing machine. A big improvement over the 299A I had. I ALSO got to see 2 X5's running, and they also were smooth, which was surprising, in light of the trouble with the 299A and all the talk of changing sheaves and using link belts to tame the beasts!
What project are you working on now? Are you still studying?
dave
Mike in Mystic wrote:

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Suggest a visit to www.targetcoatings.com, maker of Oxford WB finishes both interior and exterior. Forum is great. "Water clear" are words to describe WB lacquer and their PSL has 100% burn-in and dry times comparable to nitro.
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thanks, Bob. I bookmarked the forum and read several threads. I like the fact the answers are coming from their techs.
dave
Bob Bowles wrote:

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Hi Dave,
That sounds great. I don't have anywhere remotely clean enough to try to spray a finish anyway, so it probably is for the best that I can't spend the $$ right now on an HVLP system. BUT, SWMBO says we should start looking for a bigger place with some land, so maybe in a few years I can actually build a shop from scratch (I'm probably dreaming, but what the hell).
As for my projects, I built a new miter saw stand. I've rearranged the shop and needed to make some workstations. I didn't finish it yet, but I wanted to get started on my workbench (finally), so that's what I did this weekend. I'm building the joiner's bench from Sam Allen's book - nothing particularly fancy, but I'll have a sturdy bench with a grid of dogholes, a good front vise and the Veritas twin-screw end vise, so I should be pretty good for hand tool work soon. I ran into a little issue with part of it (see another thread I started), but it seems that I was worried for nothing.
Honestly, with the little guy on the premises now (he's already 2 months old!), I'm averaging about 5 hours of shop time a week vs. maybe 20-25 pre-baby. But, that's the way it goes. He's growing too fast, actually. He's already over 14 lbs!
Anyway, I took this semester off from the MBA program, but will be back at it in January. I don't even want to think about how little workshop time I'll have at that point.
Mike

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Mike,
Even with the limited time, I know you put it all to good use as your projects just keep rolling along. You constantly amaze me at how much stuff you get done!
Speaking of workbenches, I couldn't find a top mounted vise at the WW show yesterday. My bench has drawers under most of it and 2 Mac Tool cabinets -- one at each end. My only option would be to give up the use of a couple of the top-most Mac drawers IF there's enough room to install a vise over the Mac cabinet.
Sounds like you'll have a class-A workbench when it's all done. Please post some pics as you go along if you've got the time, ok?
I'm wondering already WHERE to put the BS. the last time I had one, there was less stuff in my shop. It's always the same isn't it, Mike, not enough time, not enough money, not enough shop space. And DEFINITELY, one can NEVER have too many Bessey clamps!! 15 is NOT enough. Since I don't seem to ever move the DP, maybe I'll use it's mobile stand for the BS.
dave
Mike in Mystic wrote:

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Well, it never feels like I'm getting anything done hehe. The list of "to-do" things is always getting longer. But I guess that's how it should be. After the workbench I'm finally going to get the dresser for the nursery done. SWMBO is pretty ornery when she sees me working on "another shop project" instead of "real projects". But when she sees how I put the handplanes I have to use finally, she "might" appreciate it. probably not.
I'll try to take pictures as I go, but I didn't even think of it today, unfortunately. Face glueing three sheets of MDF together shouldn't impress anyone anyway hehe. Cutting the notch for the vise wasn't too bad, when I finally got a clue and used a router instead of the jigsaw.
Now that I know you need 2 or even 3 coats of contact cement when using it on MDF, I'll be in pretty good shape next weekend to finish the bench. Installing the Veritas twin-screw vise should be an adventure.
As for shop stuff, I'm glad to see you're still in acquisition mode. I honestly have never even seen a Powermatic bandsaw. I'm still chugging along pretty good with my Jet 14". I haven't gotten into veneering yet, though, so we'll see how that goes. I'm planning to scavange the compressor off of a failed dehumidfier I have and see if I can use that to get a veneer press into action. with my luck it will be the compressor that is shot. We'll see.
Clamps! I was lucky enough (or unlucky as LRod might say) to get in on the Woodcraft sale of Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps. So, now my clamp total is:
K-bodies: 4x50", 4x24", 2x40" CM's: 8x48", 8x36", 8x24"
That seems to be enough for now. I also have some pipe clamps for doing really long projects, and about 15 small German bar clamps and a dozen very nice iron 6" c-clamps. I even have a few pump-action clamps (ala Craftsman), and several spring clamps. Clamps are good, eh?
And, you're right about the DP. That is about the only tool I use (other than the lathe), that I don't seem to have any desire to move. I put it in a good spot, though, so that might be why.
Alright, I'm off now. Take it easy,
Mike

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Mike in Mystic wrote:

Yeah buddy! I finally got around to doing that myself, sort of. I retrofitted a wholly unsuitable general-purpose workbench with a screw-on flat top, a stout (former rustbucket) front vise, and a grid of dog holes.
I had to make a lot of compromises due to space limitations, and the need to keep the metalworking end of the thing as-is because I really do use it a lot, but it's about 1,000% better for hand work than what I had before. It's such a joy to be able to clamp things with nothing in the way!
Gonna have to think about weight though. If I dig in wrong with a plane, the entire bench chatters across the floor. That's really rather amazing since I have nearly 150 pounds of iron and steel bolted to or sitting on the thing, and at least another 50 pounds of tools and whatnot, plus the weight of the bench itself. It must weight close to 300 pounds, and I can move it with the point of one li'l ol' razor blade.

The baby years IMHO royally suck. The bright side is that it gets better before you know it. My nine year old just assembled one of those cheapo knockdown bookcases for my wife. I told him to go ahead and try it, and came in here for a bit. SWMBO kept coming in to ask when I was going to go help him. Half an hour later, I nailed the back on for him (because it's so easy to screw that up, even for a former furniture assembler, and I wanted to take the blame if something went wrong) and it was finished. She was flabbergasted, but that's my little tool man. :)
"No, *really*, how much did he do himself?" "I nailed the back on." "No, *seriously*, how much did you help him?" "I nailed the back on." "No, quit joking, I mean *SERIOUSLY*." "I nailed the back on."
But meanwhile YOU get to look forward to about two more years of getting puked on, taking golden showers, getting puked on, changing stinky diapers, and getting puked on. Lucky you! :)
<points a finger at you and says "HA HA!">
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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