TV legal ad focused on table saw injuries

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Keith Nuttle wrote:

-------------------------------- Baxter wrote:

--------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

<snip> ------------------------------------------- What money should be followed?
Lew
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On 5/10/2014 8:57 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Any and all money that funds the studies. IMHO most studies will skew the results to keep the money coming in.
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On Sat, 10 May 2014 18:57:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

Global Warming
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Sure, it's possible you're right, but that's still pretty lousy way to look at it.
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*snip*

Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?
I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus on just a few: 1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it. 2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the switch.) 3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass. The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the blade.
Puckdropper
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On 5/7/2014 10:01 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

All of those are resolvable by making one of those PVC frames that allow you to hit it with your foot from anywhere and shut the saw.
But that leaves you unbalanced. It may wind up getting hit inadvertently while passing a piece through making the second start up dangerous.
--
Jeff

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On 5/7/2014 9:01 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Stop all movement and then try to shut off the saw with out moving the work.

Full 3/4" sheets I try to break up with my track saw or have my wife on hand to turn the TS on and off and to help me keep the edge against the fence. Typically the work is too heavy to cause a serious kickback should you bind the blade. the blase most often creates a burned wider kerf. IME the small pieces are the ones that can cause the most harm.

Not sure what you are describing here but typically the switch is on the left side of the blade. The work is always between me and the fence.
Some thing to consider about the safest place to be during a cut. I know a lot of people that want to use the fence to help protect so they stand with the fence between them and the work. IMHO it is far better to stand in a position that affords you maximum control over the cut vs one that may not necessarily be ad protective as you think.
If the board takes flight no where is necessarily a safe place to be.

You need to plan your feather board placement better. The feather board should not allow a start of a cut at all if properly placed, meaning the feather board is always in front of the blade.
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"BillinGA" wrote in message

Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they enjoy success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can see:
A lock-out device on table saws that will not allow them to start if there is no fence or miter gauge installed (the flooring guys would hate that and other fixtures would be a problem without corresponding sensors (e.g., sleds, tenonning jigs)). A lock-out device on drill presses such that if the work is not clamped down the drill press will not start (I'd be surprised if anyone "always" clamps the work down). A lock-out device on bandsaws such that if the space between the upper blade guide and the wood exceeds say 1/4" the saw will not start. A laser activated kill switch with brake on jointers if your hands get within say 3" of the knives (a brake on a fly wheel like a chainsaw... non-destructive unlike SawStop). Etc. I'm sure we can all think of various tools and "dangerous" operator practices that could be technologized to make them "safe," and thus become retro-active targets for the lawyers.
I'd think chainsaws would be the most dangerous power tool out there... perhaps the day will come that a mandatory training and certification class is required to buy or operate one... YouTube is full of good examples of bad practices and older saws that lack all the "modern" safety devices could be easy targets.
Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...
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On 5/7/2014 9:38 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Witness the current texting/driving issue. Idiots feel safer when in their padded, mobile cocoon; and when people feel safer they take more chances, so the total level of actual safety remains relatively constant.
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On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:

I believe that sentence should stop there. Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.
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-MIKE-

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On 5/7/2014 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Actually there is an instance when they are quite useful, If you are plowing a grove and or not making a through cut.
I do this all the time when cutting groves for drawer bottoms.
Anything "through" should not have an out feed feather board.
And I sit here typing this while listening to the flooring guys cutting the hickory wood treads for our stairs using a bench top Skil TS with out benefit of miter gauge or rip fence. They have insurance.
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Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues in various public offices), not the "state".
Regardless, it's all pretty silly, and nobody is talking about banning all the power tools on the secondary market, are they?
Just look at all the houston-based law-firms advertising class action suits on TV (asbestos, birth control pills, vaginal mesh, ad infinitum). Quite bothersome and a good reason to have a Tivo or equivalent that allows commercial skipping.
The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries; which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and class actions.
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"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message writes:

The problem is the legal challenges eventually turn into laws or bureaucratic regulations.... OSHA, CPSC...
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On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Bzzzt ...
"United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"
This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.
The Feds are the ones who fucked up the patent system to start with.
... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"! ;)
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On 5/7/14, 11:53 AM, Leon wrote:

Yes, of course. That was the context of the conversation... he said ripping.

I believe those thing are responsible for probably 90% of TS accidents. I was helping a friend finish out his studio space and his other friend was doing most of the work with his own power tools. He had one of those Skils, which should never be referred to as table saws... they are so freakin tiny. Anyway, no guard, no miter gauge, no splitter, and the thing was sitting directly on a smooth concrete floor. I made one cut on the thing while experiencing an instant cold sweat and that was my last cut with it. I refused to do any more.
I told my friend that this guy was going to hurt himself, not a matter of if, but when. He called me about 6 months later to say the guy was in the hospital recovering from reconstructive surgery on his hand.
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-MIKE-

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I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that releases a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table top? Pulls the blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the saw, doesn't destroy the blade - all you do is reset the latch.
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On 5/7/2014 1:11 PM, Baxter wrote:

You should start working on it. I imagine the SawStop people tried to make something that does not destroy the blade. Maybe you will do better and make a fortune.
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On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:

That would be a SawStop patent infringement.
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Surely they don't import the jurors, who decide the case, from outside the eastern district of texas?
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On 5/7/2014 12:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

You'd be surprised how many are transplants from the East and West coast. Damn few second generation Texans left down here.
But that is beside the point. Jurors much decide theses cases, with great influence from the Federal judges, on FEDERAL law.
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