Tung vs. linseed

[Trent©]

I'm redoing our kitchen cabinets...and I want to put oil on them when I finish stripping them.

I did one very small door a few months ago...to see how it looked when done. I used linseed oil on it...which is what I always use. It looks great...exactly the look I'm looking for.

I have never used tung oil...have no idea even what it looks like when on, etc.

Can someone give me some practical experience they've had with tung oil? Is it much different in application...looks...etc. from linseed oil? This is all going on birch, BTW.

Do ya think the one door with the linseed oil will match the tung oil door? I was planning on putting on 4 coats of linseed oil. Will I need that many of tung oil for the same level of protection?

TIA

Have a nice week...

Trent

Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!

[Leon]

In a kitchen setting, I would highly advise using a more protective varnish. These cabinets tend to be abused and wiped down more than any other in your house.

That said, a common recipe for a finish is to mix equal parts of Boiled Linseed oil, Tung Oil, and Varnish.

[Rick Stein]

You sure . . .? I thought it was equal parts of either turpentine or mineral spirits, oil (either linseed or tung), and varnish?

Rick

[Leon]

I am sure. Many recipes are common.

[Swingman]

All of the above. Your mixture is often the ingredients in "Danish" oil and its variants. The thinner is added for ease of application. Another common recipe is what Leon said ... BLO/Tung/Poly(varnish) ... mixed by many a woodworker, and sold commercially as "Sam Maloof" finish, among others, because it is what he purportedly uses on his rocking chairs.

[Bannerstone]

You might want to stay away from oil based finishes for the interiors. They have a characteristic of smelling uncured for a long time afterwords.

The Tried and True Varnish Oil is supposed to be a solution to this sort of problem but I understand its contingent on using very thin and well cured between coats which is most easily done when the product is heated.

I'd be more inclined to use shellac on the interiors.

David

[Bob N]

Trent, Rick is right on the turps/oil/varnish mixture. You definitely want to use a more protective finish than just oil. You might also look at the FWW article from last year about rubbing in thinned spar varnish.

[Swingman]

Agree about shellac being a possibility. However, from my experience, the only dependable, long lasting, ultimately satisfying way to go on kitchen cabinets can be summed up in one word: "lacquer" ... and I like spraying shellac every chance I get.

[donald girod]

I would NEVER use anything but oil-based poly on kitchen cabinets, because it has the greatest resistance to water. Of course, if you never use the kitchen except for chinese takeout (and I think that this does in fact characterize a lot of very expensive kitchens), then it matters not what you use. Water-based poly is probably ok too, but it generally is more likely to waterspot. In any case, oil finishes are not water resistant--the more oil, the less resistance. You can mix oil and varnish or use commercial products, but none of them will hold up as well as poly. Sprayed lacquer is ok, and catalyzed finishes used by professionals are obviously great, but if you are doing it yourself, brushing on poly with a Jen Manufacturing foam brush is hard to beat for ease, total effort, and expense. And I LIKE the smell of curing varnish, which only lasts a month or so really. But that's me. Oil smells a lot more.

I really like oil for situations where it is possible to pretty much guarantee that no idiot is going to put a wet glass on it, and in fact I have been finishing some furniture pieces with just tung oil and paint thinner. It takes about 6 weeks to finally get pretty dry, but it does eventually dry, and it doesn't darken the wood as much as linseed. It is also supposed to be somewhat more waterproof.

[Mike G]

It is oil, thinner, varnish. The results are basically a Danish oil. Very high oil to resin content. While the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 formula is common you can vary the properties by varying the ratio's.

The thinner helps in penetration of the oil and the varnish resins provide a bit more protection then oil alone.

It makes little sense to mix three oils, varnish being a high ratio resin to tung oil mix to start with, since you gain little and don't get the penetration the above will give you.

But, like chicken soup it can't hurt and if it gives you the warm and fuzzies, what the hell.

[Mike G]

Now this isn't meant to disagree and personally, I wouldn't depend on any oil finish for any great protection from moisture, but I've always read the opposite. Linseed oil being more moisture resistant then tung oil. It was supposedly it's only saving grace. But then again that is what I seem to remember reading at some point. I'm going to see if I can find that little piece of trivia.

On another point that came up in the tread which I'm only addressing on yours rather then one of the other posts because it's less work then answering two posts, so forgive me.

Kitchen cabinets are all vertical surfaces and are really only subjected to standing water during floods. Barring that eventuality I've never seen any reason that why oil can't be used on the cabinets (NOTE, not counter tops).

From a practical point of view not only is it easy to apply but, even if it should become dull, it is also easily rejuvenated with further applications of oil.

Yes, oil doesn't provide a lot of protection from water but it does provide some, more then enough to withstand the occasional sink overflow or spilled glass of milk. Add a good coat of wax and an oil finished kitchen cabinet set will probably stay better looking with less maintenance longer then a lacquer finished cabinet set.

Just a thought or two.

[Swingman]

Some practical experience tends to lead me to believe otherwise, but the jury is still out. Although I finished my current kitchen with lacquer, my previous one was finished using an oil/varnish. The accumulation of airborne cooking oils grease down through the years did nothing but muck up the latter. Had nothing to do with vertical surfaces.

I have not been that long in this kitchen, but thus far I see none of the problems in this regard that I saw in the last kitchen early on.

[Michael Daly]

Among paddle makers, many believe that oil is better than any hard finish. But putting a paddle in the water a gazzillion times a day isn't quite the same as wiping up a splash of tomato sauce. Personally, if it's a real kitchen, I'd not use anything but a hard, washable finish.

I hear the opposite from paddle makers. Tung's a tad more resistant. YMMV Something tells me this could be debated till the cows come home.

Mike

[Mike G]

Ahh, how to be delicate about it. Years of cooking grease and smoke in the air will muck up any finish if it isn't cleaned once and awhile.

Sorry, best I could do.

Take care Mike

[Mike G]

That's why I stopped short of any definitive comment. I'm content to go with the verdict of paddle makers.

[Swingman]

Tsk, tsk ... that was the point ... constant cleaning of an oil/varnish finish over the years _was_ the problem.

[Lawrence A. Ramsey]

[George]

Sounds improbable, given the high expense of a trip to China. More money in other cargo than could be made in oil. You do mean "bricks," no?

[Lawrence A. Ramsey]

Well, when you type with two fingers, you quit worrying about the little stuff like spelling! Yep, meant BRICKS.

[Andy Dingley]

This has frequently been empirically true, but it's because of different driers, not because of different oils

Linseed oil has fallen from favour and now tung is more popular (broadly speaking). This has roughly coincided with fears over heavy metals, and a shift from lead-based driers to manganese ones.

Now there may be some difference between the oils themselves, but there's a _huge_ difference between the effects of these driers. Lead becomes more effective in rising humidity and manganese becomes less so. Above 70% RH, manganese barely works (one of the reasons not to apply oil finishes in a damp atmosphere). If you study old gunsmithing references (The Modern Gunsmith from the 1930s is a good book and still quite common) you'll see much discussion of the effects of either drier, or of mixing them, on gunstocking oil finishes. Bill Knight (The Mad Monk) has also done useful research in this area.

Even after the finishes are fully cured, there are differences in their resultant surface. A lead-dried oil finish _feels_ different - it's often described as having a "leather-like" texture. It's also a matter of historical record that the favoured recipe for waterproofing oilcloth to make travelling chests etc. was a lead based drier. This was seen as more resistant to water, and also as lasting longer when exposed to water.

So there may be differences in the oils, and their relative tolerance for water. But the type of chemical drier used is even more significant.

-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods