Top posting is best

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It's a PITA to have to scan through some times 2 or 3 or more messages to get to a reply. Some of you think it's ridiculous to top post, but that's your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine! As Bill Murray would say, "that's the facts Jack"!
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So you don't like people who don't trim un-needed content. I agree. I also think that having answers after questions makes sense.
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wrote:

Change of heart I see. Several months you chastised me because that is what I did. In fact some content should be trimmed all together if it pertains to the poster and not everyone in general.
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wrote:

Who really cares????????
--


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The real problem is trimming post, not top or bottom posting.
OTOH, when you take over as moderator, you can insist on top posting.
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IMHO if the message that you are replying to is long and drawn out, top post it. If it is short, 7 or 8 lines, bottom post it. If the reply is some what detailed or personally directed to one person, post "only the answer". I feel there is no need to repeat everything for single answers.
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ALWAYS trim posts. That's the polite thing to do. It takes an extra 10 seconds to do this. 100,000 readers deserve 10 seconds of effort, right?
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news:d0k465$iqu$1

Well actually I think that each post being answered to should be considered as to how to answer. Trimming often means having to look at another post to understand the response. Many think it is impolite to not have everything right there in front of them.
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Well....
1) a regular reader doesn't need the entire threat repeated each time. It's irritating to see the same thing again.
2) If you have a threaded news reader, you know the thread anyway.
It's really only useful to someone who hasn't been following the thread. Besides, there is a second problem. See below, ander I first include the line I was responding to.
Here are the previous postings, in "top-posting order" to this comment.

I wrote:

Leon writes:

Now that I repeated the thread WITH trimming, in the top-posting form that you prefer, and I find hard to follow, here is the second problem with top posting.
3) it makes discussing something point by point very difficult to follow.
If I wanted to respond to each of your points one at a time, there is no place to put it, while keeping previous threads intact.
I can do this with bottom posting, and make it readable.
Top posting forces you to scroll through the other posts in the opposite and natural order of reading, and in fact you have to jump both up and down to follow the discussion of anything more than a short response.
You can always DAGS on "top posting"
Sites that are anti-top-posting usually outnumber anti-bottom-posting sites by 10 to 1, or more.
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I agree, but I am a frequent poster and sometimes a target of how I should do it. Really I don't care if some one wants to read what I have to say or how they feel I should post. I normally try to make it EQUALLY easy for both of us but being human that does not always happen.
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On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:13:08 GMT, "Leon"
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Reasonable trimming should allow enough context to either let you know what'ts going on, or lead you to look back. If somebody is not interested enough to check out the thread or already have been following it, then their importance to the thread and other posters is minimal.

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Bruce Barnett wrote:

Your reply is a perfect example of how a posting should be formatted. The purpose of a quotation is to allow a point of reference to previously written material; it is not supposed to be an archive of an entire conversation. Bottom posting allows for a more normal flow of conversation, but it's only effective when folks take the trouble to trim the quotation down to a paragraph or two. Nobody wants to scroll down through reams of material for a one line reply.
Top posting makes the flow awkward and usually the top poster doesn't bother trimming any of his quotation either. A pox on his house!
Anyway, you get a gold star for doing it the way it should be done.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
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This may be a "perfect example" but it's kind of irrelevant in our "imperfect" world. 99.999% of posters, be they top, bottom or middle (IMHO the worst kind ) posters do not snip, and never will. So now, all of us when following a thread must scroll down to the meat on the majority of posts (since bottom posts dominate), wading thru maybe 3 days worth of posts which our eyes, if not our brain, have now seen umteen times. What a waste of time and energy to say nothing of the wear and tear on arthritic fingers. Why don't we just chaulk up the concept of snipping as a nice theoretical but impractical plan and all start top posting. And no snipping so if someone wants to reread things, its all there.
I nominate Bob, the OP, for moderator.

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Treetops wrote:

Because there's no need to repost the same material over and over again. What a waste of bandwidth! Think how much faster the internet would be if it didn't have to ship spam worldwide. All your suggestion would do is codify the slowing of the net... and make you feel less guilty since you can't afford the few seconds necessary to delete redundant information. Or maybe you lack the skills?
--
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These posters are rude. The way I and most old timers see it, being rude is anti-social. If we as a group allow this, then we are harming ourselves for allowing rude behavior.
If we want the group to be more pleasant to read, then we should, as a group, let others know their behavior is anti-social. If these people learn and change, great. If not, there are kill files.
Or we can remain silent, and let the anti-social behavior continue, and therefore encourage more anti-social behavior by accepting it. This means there is a great chance of talented and knowledgable people deciding to permanently leave, and we all lose.
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Your estimate is a bit high.

majority of posts (since bottom posts dominate), wading thru maybe 3 days worth of posts which our eyes, if not our brain, have now seen umteen times. What a waste of time and energy to say nothing of the wear and tear on arthritic fingers. Can those fingers hit "enter" every once in a while? Your line length is at 240 characters for that last one. Horizontal scrolling is even more annoying that top-posters.

That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard. I'd like to quote one of Mortimer's comments in the context of your response, but you've got the conversation all upside-down now.

And I notice you didn't snip anything either.

On that, of course, we agree.
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wrote:

OK so lets compromise and make it 50%. Still a lot of non-snippers forcing a lot of scrolling. So what's your magic solution for converting 50% of the world's posters to the art of snipping?

maybe 3 days worth of posts which our eyes, if not our brain, have now seen umteen times. What a waste of time and energy to say nothing of the wear and tear on arthritic fingers.

I agree. Me bad. Hopefully I fixed it.

Yeaaaa! Whats my prize? Let me help you with quoting Mortimer; he said something about saving the world's bandwidth, speeding up the internet, eliminating the worldwide shipment of spam, and mass education in snipping skills. Hope I got that right. You might check with him but he may be hard to reach. Last time I saw him he was on a horse chasing after some guy called Don Quixote looking for windmills.

Gee. Guess I'm part of the 50%. OTOH I just wasn't sure how much or where to snip. It"s so complicated: Should I trim or snip? What is a reasonable trim? Is it rude to snip somebodies signature? Is the flow and context still intact? Have I changed the meaning altogether? Should I leave the untrimmed part from the previous 4 posts there?
I'm already in trouble with the top posting police. I just didn't want to also get in trouble with the snip, eerrr trim, police too. So I wimped out and didn't snip.

Oh oh. That was only a joke!
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"Hey, did you know that if you'd trim out some of that stuff we've all read over and over, and if you put your answers _after_ the question, that everything works better?" type messages.

Looks better, it's more like 90 now.

A "Gore/Lieberman" sticker, I think.

See, but if you had quoted him effectively, it'd be right up there, 7 or 8 lines up, above your "> Let me help".
> You might check with him but he may be hard to reach. Last time

Well, when there are people who say "Wow, what a mess, here, let me make it worse", ...

Apparently.
It depends. "Include enough context so people know who you're talking to and what you're talking about" is a good guideline that I've seen for a long time.

Never.
Not if you turn it upside-down.

If you have, they'll correct you.

Probably not. Anything more than two or three deep is rarely needed, unless there's a debate about a fine or subtle point of something rather deep.

I've never seen "lazily didn't bother to..." written that way, but whatever.

Yes, there's a lot of that going on in this sub-part of the discussion. Which is left 4-deep because context makes sense that way.
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As far as I'm concerned, pick something - top, bottom or if the subject line has the question, delete all and just answer. In the long run - who really cares?
Dave
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"Teamcasa" wrote

Bottom posting wastes people's time by scrolling thru huge texts just to find a few words. Top posting wastes disk space on news servers and many people are going to scroll down to the bottom, wondering whether you have anything more to say. These problems are multiplied when you quote an entire posting that in turn quotes an entire posting.
-- The "--" means to anything under it will be deleted by some news server. Here are more tips.
If you're responding to more than one point, you should intersperse your comments among sections of quoted text, in point-counterpoint style. Put a blank line between each section, to help the reader distinguish them.
Effective "trimming" is a skill that improves with practice. If someone complains, look closely at what you did and re-evaluate your quoting strategy. If anyone wants to read your trimmed text they can refer up the thread.
Attribute quotes properly by placing your comments after the comment(s) that you are responding to, like this:
Nit Picker wrote: >Trivia Wiz wrote >>Palm Guy wrote: >>>Island Fan wrote: >>>>Trivia Wiz wrote >>>>>Who is named in the original theme song of Gilligan's >>>>>Island? >>>> >>>>Gilligan, Skipper, the Howells, and Ginger. >>> >>>What about Mary Ann and the Professor? >> >>They weren't mentioned until the second season. > >And the Howells and Ginger were described, not named.
Those *poor* people.
But not like this,
Those *poor* people.
Nit Picker wrote: >And the Howells and Ginger were described, not named. > >Trivia Wiz wrote: >>They weren't mentioned until the second season. >> >>Palm Guy wrote: >>>What about Mary Ann and the Professor? >>> >>>Island Fan wrote: >>>>Gilligan, Skipper, the Howells, and Ginger. >>>> >>>>Trivia Wiz wrote >>>>>Who is named in the original theme song of Gilligan's >>>>>Island?
After all, most people agree that it's a Good Thing to use correct spelling and grammar, but they also agree that spelling, grammar and formatting all contribute to people's impressions of you, and have at least some influence on how seriously other people will take you.
In newsgroups, your words are the only "visible" evidence that people can judge you by. They also affect how easy it is for people to read it, and understand the points that you're trying to make. In general, people don't like to be slowed down by scrolling through unnecessary material, or by having to stop and re-construct the logical sequence.
Reconstructed from a document maintained by Jon Bell http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html#Q1
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